Good Morning Alisyn,
Yes I agree if you take care of yourself you should pay less,
but if you start the day off with a bloody Mary,
I dont know if thats taking care of yourself…..lol

Good Morning Ms Aly,

It’s no longer insurance when you put such parameters on the contract.

Insurance is about risk assessment, the insurance company would no longer have a risk involved.

Just like mandatory car insurance. There’s no risk there because if you have an accident your rates go up until you pay back what it cost. That’s not insurance, that’s a loan.

Good luck today with your picks.

chas

Good morning to Ali and to everyone on the blog this morning! Oh my am I the first to comment this morning?

Good Bloody Morning LOL

Good morning Alisyn, Chas, Me, Sal, Mary.

Would this health insurance do the same thing? Increase your rates if you use it? Why not car insurance does.

chas

I understand personal responsibility but I thought the idea was to help the poor get good health insurance. Statistics prove that the majority of smokers and overweight are poverty-strickened. Explain how the people how can’t afford health insurance now are going to be able to pay a higher premium?

Good Morning Alisyn Bloody Mary in the morning~~~
What happens when you do stay in god health & do eat right but the problem is genetic ? I personally lost two friends who died of lung cancer & never smoked. Plus Grandpa died of prostrate cancer. So I’m not sure it would work, they would really have to define whats – what

Buy the way that ball yesterday looked like a lot of fun!.

Car insurance rates are based on your driving record NOT your driving habits. Most people in my family live well into their nineties. Many of them did not have healthy lifestyles yet died of old age. If We make health insurance like car insurance the risk would be determined by your health record not your eating habits.

Because Robin, it’s about control and power, not about the people.

chas

Sal, yes it is it one of your veggies for the day! LOL

Is BIG BROTHER going to be watching us eat? Are doctors now are going to “rat you out”? Where’s the privacy act in this? The answer….ppl are going to lie about their habits and get possible erroneous treatments.

This HealthCare LieFest will be destroying the Insurance, Medical and Med Supply Companies. How long can companies, clinic, doctors, hospitals remain open when the gov reimbursement will be about 1/4 of the cost that a patient encurs.

Oh, we are going to get fines and penalities, and “l’l Ahmad” gets sent to the corner for building Nuclear factories.!!!!!

I think in theory it is a good idea but totally impossible to monitor or to have universal guidelines. It is kind of like the discussion on mentally handicapped children and education. Who decides which children can benefit from formal education? No one wants to set an IQ threshold or any other standard so all mentally handicapped children go to school until they are 21 – 26 years old in my state. It is a huge burden on the finances of public schools but no one has to make a judgment on who is deserving or who would benefit and who is not or would not.

Good morning Alisyn and everyone, You look great as always. I like the idea of paying less for health insurance for good habits as well as paying more for bad habits. I foresee a number of problems with this. Pre existing conditions for one. Once you contract a diease do you then pay a higher rate providing it’s not from a bad habit. With some work it could be a solution.

I cannot imagine any doctor wanting to “rat” patients out. People would just stop going to the doctor and the health problems would be made worse.

Ha Colleen that would be funny to see on the menu as a veggie of the day

Sal I’ll have 2

People who take care of themselves still have health problems!

Colleen if you have a few bloody marys in the morning you might just go back to bed…lol

Chas~~

Would this health insurance do the same thing? Increase your rates if you use it? Why not car insurance does.

chas
Good question. If that happen & you had a real major problem can you imagine the bill! On top of the fact even right now if one goes over the insurance limit the bill lands in your mailbox! Like I said already what if the problem is genetic! Then your getting into a whole another ball park.

And these comments are exactly why the Health Insurance Reform needs time to put something in the correct order. I am for reform, but why the rush? They want to rush this through Congress without thinking through the amendments and stupid stuff that the Eziekel Emanuel and the “ones” crooks put in the HR 3200 bill.

Good Morning Everyone

How does one prove they have good health habits???? I could say I do and I could be lying…

Hello Alisyn,

Hope you remember me! It’s been a while. The healthy should pay less. I pay for a gym membership, I work hard to stay in shape. I think people who take a pro-active role in keeping themselves in shape. Should be rewarded by paying cheaper rates on health insurance.

Your gorgeous as ever Alisyn. Wish you weren’t married!!!…lol (just kidding)

What’s the story with Ainsley Earhardt….WOW! Drop dead gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!!

Pat

This debate is over once you factor in Homosexuality and the aides problem. Dare anyone say that people who engage is “risky” behaviors beyond smoking and eating will have to pay more for their insurance? I think not….

Stop buying into the confusion of this issue. All these out of work lawyers should stop trying to fix the unbroken wheel.

Car insurance does not prevent auto accidents and health insurance does not prevent health problems and illness.

Two years ago I was in the hospital for a month. The bill was $135,000. Can you imagine what my rates would go to then?

chas

I agree Bill…don’t these people have anything better to do than to try to re-invent the wheel?

I say let the government buy those who qualify a major medical plan for under $200.00 a month ( I have one and it is just fine) and leave the rest of the insurance alone!! Unless Obama is willing to direct the congress to get a handle on Tort Reform, it is all an exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Sal~~~ Some days not a bad idea!

Seems to me…if the Grandmother who was arrested for buying a 2 boxes of cold medicine was supposedly such a ‘breaker of the law’…the law would’ve taken the dang meds too…wouldn’t ya think? (sarc) Think they should’ve at least taken the meds she was ’supposedly’ starting a meth lab with??? MORONS!! They used this innocent grandmother as a ‘news getter’….sad and methodically done!

You would be kicked out of your plan in the private sector unless you were in a group, I bet.

Hi Pat, welcome back

Anisly is on at night, but I only know that cause of her facebook posting, are you fb? look her up very sweet lady too

I need to post ontopic but really dont want to get into the health issue

The anointed one wants the health care issue defined as his legacy. If this reform bill gets passed without anyone reading it, or sticking a bunch of amendents to it, it can NEVER be undone. The “one” doesn’t think about US the American taxpayer, he is thinking of himself ONLY!

Discrimanation against homosexuallity is a good point, On second thought the lawyers would love this. Just think of the law suits this could start.

I know, Me. It is getting really old- the health thing. I did hear that the plans from the senate will contain $800 billion in tax increases on all Americans. So, the health bill is really a tax bill in a health bills clothing.

one bloody mary each morning is probably more healthy than drinking coffee!!!!

Chas~~When my Dad&Mom were in the hospital back to back couple of years ago both for over a month the bill for the both of them was almost half a million–No Lie!

Art~~~~Sorry you not taking away my coffee!!!

Hey, I agree everyone in this country ’should’ eat/live healthier…OF COURSE! Who would say NO? What’s the #1 main reason people don’t?? $$$ Ever see how much it is for sugar-free over sugar? Low-cal? Dietic? So…where should this regulation start…with punishing the insurance purchaser….or those raking in the bucks taking advantage of this new change???!!!

I believe that Colleen.

chas

Competition in the health insurance market place requires each individual to purchase insurance based on merit. The issue here is lifestyle, obesity, smoking, and drinking. People who watch their health deserve rewards. The competitive market would do this if the law allowed. The result healthy lifestyles equal lower costs. Hereditary disease is a different issue. The issues and answers are a different debate

keep talking about bloody mary’s & I’m going to have to go downstairs to make one!!

Only when people pay for their own coverage do they care how much it costs. When they receive government or employer based insurance they don’t take ownership of their health. So, the idea of getting a better premium based on health status is not really possible to execute.

LOLOL ME you can make me one too

If that were true Peter my car insurance would be about zero. But I promise you that it isn’t even lower than a 35 yr olds.

Until you have tort reform and competition cost are going no where but up.

chas

Good morning everyone

And so many state employees have the best of the best insurance and have it negotiated for them. The major health insurance provider for state employees refuses to release it’s actuarial data for the purpose of comparing private insurance for state employees so it is very difficult to pry these hugely expensive policies out of the hands of the public employee.

Good morning Marine ,
about time you woke up LOL

Don’t say that too loud Me, yourt insurance rates will go up

All those Bloody Marys last night Merle

Hello Dom. How are you?

Hi Carolyn, I am just fine thank you. Hope all is well with you also.

LOLOL Marine I was under the impression that a bloody Mary was a good hangover cure….

And what if the reimbursements are so little to the dr’s, will YOU then be responsible for the unpaid portion? Saw it happen this past week. Elderly woman was shocked that her Medicare and backup insurance left a $91.00 payment due from 2008. Too late to squabble with the insurance Company and the woman, had to payout the balance BEFORE being seen again.

We saw how slow Cash for Clunkers paid out the money. HealthCare isnt going to wait 3-6-9 months to get paid. It is a business. The doctors don’t get involved in the billing. Its handled by the Office manager. So, if you need additional visits under a gov plan…….YOU might find yourself paying out the bill and then YOU argue it out with your Insurance Co.

Me ~~ It is Football Sunday! Like they say it’s 5:00 somewhere! LOL

Chas~~I read your latest blog, left a note.

Blaming the smoker and overeater is like blaming everything on BUSH-
What about the DRUG ADDICT-CRACK HEAD-ALCOHOLIC-OH,that’s right-they don’t pay for health insurance-I forgot MEDICAID-.

I left you a response Colleen.

chas

Hey Merle.

I was a public employee and I never gave a care about how much my insurance premium was. The district paid and it was part of my pay.

When I joined the private sector, I sure became aware about the cost and what a pre-existing condition was. Then, as a school board member I saw that health insurance had become the holy grail of the employee contract. I served for 8 years and saw only one change in the $1100.00 per employee per month contract language. The employees, after 3 years of negotiating, finally accepted an increase to their prescription coverage co-pay from $5 to $10 per the state arbitrators insistence. That was it. Since that time they have accepted the use of Blue Cross instead of exclusively having the union insurance but still they only pay about $30.00 a month toward their premium. Many of you are public employees and I do not wish to offend but I am sharing my experience having been on both sides.

Why isn’t alcohol ever mentioned in unhealthy habits? Only, drugs, tobacco and obesity are ever mentioned. Is it more acceptable right now?

As you talk about Bloody Mary’s

We’ll be forced have insurance, our taxes will pay for the poor(whether we have good or unhealthy habits). The people with unhealthy habits that pay more will probably die before they use it, the ones with good habits won’t use it.

Sounds like a good plan: For Insurance Company’s

Why are things so complicated. There has to be a way to make health care and health insurance affordable enough so we can pay for our own. Buy over state lines, tort reform. Or is it there’s not as much money to be made if we can take care of ourselves.

Well Bajette, wasn’t it Bush that caused all those people to begin smoking, etc?

I think more and more docs will stop taking insurance and do just as you say, Colleen. Ask Sterling. She lives this stuff.

CHAS….

I agree!! If Insurance no longer a RISK…it is now, just a LOAN!! Paying in ahead of time, and getting less back when needed! Who’s taking the RISK here??

It was all Bush’s fault! Haaa. We can all point fingers at others, can’t we. One guy eating a donut will point to the guy who is smoking and on and on…

Marie,

Common sense. Increasing competiton decreases cost. The ability to purchase across state lines just makes sense. That is why our legisilatures can’t figure it out

Cant post a comment.

I am down to major medical so when I go to doc I know I am paying her for actual services instead of the insurance company for stuff I don’t need. I am covered after a deduct for “major” stuff if I need it. We are all acculturated into believing we must have the best insurance. I wish I had the thousands of dollars I paid for “cadillac” private insurance that I had when kids were growing up but never used the full benefit of.

Good morning, Alisyn and everyone.

Is anyone worried about unintended consequences of risk-based health insurance? How long will it be before a DNA sample is required to assess risk of genetic disease? The human genome has been mapped and genes that predispose behavior have been identified. I think it’s the H5 gene that promotes risk-taking. How long before these other characteristics are included in the overall risk assessment?

Re: Black Bears do NOT have white faces. Did you hear the guy say that?

Risky behavior includes a lot more than being obese or smoking.

What about drinking? If you have more than 2 drinks a day, doctors say that is too much. If you have multiple drinks but just one day a week, you are a binge drinker.

What about risky sexual behavior? Are you going to quiz your children about their sexual practices? If not, then they get an STD that is chronic (like herpes) or can cause later cancer (like genital warts), what happens with your insurance?

What if one of your children is obese no matter what you try? Does that child get singled out as an extra premium case?

What if you take anti-depressants? ADD? Then you are going to be more expensive for the insurance company/government?

Does it ever end? What if you have infertility because of chlamydia you got as a youngster due to risky sexual behavior?

What if you are gay and not practicing safe sex?

Who doesn’t have risky behavior at some point?

Chas, I know what she’s going through.
Marie~~Why isn’t alcohol ever mentioned in unhealthy habits? Only, drugs, tobacco and obesity are ever mentioned. Is it more acceptable right now?

Have a brother that is a health nut! So much so he drives us nuts Thing is he drinks & has coffee in the morning & puts Baileys in it every morning!

I have a healthy diet & have never been overweight ( problem keeping it on), exercise, don’t eat processed foods etc & I still ended up with a brain aneurysm & carotid artery blockage latter from the aneurysm. Both are hereditary.

I had the across State Lines Insurance. I lived in NJ and the Co we got was in Virginia. My Dr accepted the Insurance but after nearly 5 months and still NO payment, the Office turned it over to collections. I had to HOUND this Co to pay the bill. I cured their runaround by sending the INSURANCE COMPANY NOTICES…about 3 a day on the brightest colored paper ( bright pink, lime green, orange, yellow) for about two weeks. They then couldn’t tell me that They NEVER got any correspondences or bills.

Watching them play on the Wii has me wee weeing myself

Salvatore , You just did

Comment by carolynro
October 4th, 2009 at 7:37 am
I am down to major medical so when I go to doc I know I am paying her for actual services instead of the insurance company for stuff I don’t need. I am covered after a deduct for “major” stuff if I need it. We are all acculturated into believing we must have the best insurance. I wish I had the thousands of dollars I paid for “cadillac” private insurance that I had when kids were growing up but never used the full benefit of.

———————–

Bravo, carolynro! This is what everyone should have. All they need to do is get rid of the pre-existing conditions and cap on yearly/lifetime limits. Most people can afford to pay out of pocket for doctors visits and the costs would come down for many things if individuals were paying for them instead of insurance companies.

Sooo, does that mean that IF i smoked and my insurance rates are based on that fact and then I quit, my insurance costs GO DOWN. I would love to see that happen, We all know companies that raise teh rates when their costs go up, but never lower them when their costs go back down. Example, my trash collection company raised their rates to offset the increease in gas prices, now that the gas prices hacve gone back down, did they lower their rates …. NOPE!! I see insurance being the same way.

Does Wii Fit classify as part of a healthy lifestyle according to the insurance companies?? If not, what does? What doesn’t and who decides that? My legislators? Some guy who is 100 pounds over weight sitting in a government office dying for his cigarette break just before he climbs into his sports car onand stopping for a “Bloody Mary” on his way home?

the only person you have to be accountable to is you. that is what is wrong with this country, everyone wants the easy way out, the quick fix, the hand out. the only person who can change is you. i do think that people with good health habits should be rewarded for it just like a good driving record is rewarded with cheaper rates.

by the way alyson, are you pregnant? you have such a great petite figure, but i think i see a bulge.

keep doing what you guys do, you are the best.

Me~~~~Truth time have you been in the Bloody Mary’s? LOL

Well, it is clear that there is more behind this attempt to take over the health care system….it would provide another place to tax behavior or life styles of the American people on a large scale. It is insidious.

Insurance rates already reflect smoker vs. non-smoker rates. Adding other medical factors/risks to determine premiums is totally outrageous, especially in light of the fact that new ways to determine your predetermined “cancer risks” are always being found. Blood tests and DNA swabbing can already determine your risk for various cancers based on family history. Are we then to penalize and raise rates to anyone with cancer risks in their families? This practice would make rate schedules a moving target for any proposed insured, as new technologies are developed to determine other risk factors for illness. We can’t afford more reasons to not be able to afford insurance.

Why not also charge more for anyone who drinks? who particpates in sports and are more likely to get injured? who drive over the speed limit? who are underweight and may get anorexia or bulimia or other ailments associated with the underweight? anyone who has children…why should the rest of us pay more to cover maternity insurance for those who want to have kids?

I’m a smoker, 35 years.

I don’t mind paying more for insurance, but then don’t sin tax me ALSO (for someone else’s insurance, like SCHIP).

Alisyn Camerota Health–Who is going to police health habits–Don’t you think the policing costs might be factored into the premium. Alisyn–just push for Congress to allow us to write health care premiums off on our income tax. That cost should come off the top and be available to all–even those who take the standard deduction.

Sue Racine

I strongly disagree . . . this would not be insurance, i.e., risk assessment, premiums; it would be ’social engineering.’ If we allow this type of legislation that so directly intrudes into our everyday lives, what’s next? Will the gov’t dictate exactly what foods/beverages are healthy, and if we deviate from ‘their’ food list would we then be punished with even higher premiums. I thought the purpose here was to bring the cost of healthcare down. Seems to me the direction is now going in hiking the premiums of those who already have coverage; and where does the gov’t get the authority to force a citizen to purchase a service? and if they don’t purchase the service they direct, they can both fine and put you in jail? This thing is out of control.

I remember, yrs back, a dr told me that my toddler was a few pounds overweight on the graft. No lie…..this dr was OBESE and had a donut on his desk………..

Alysin, I understand the point you made but to me it appears as if the goverment is dividing to conquer. There’s no doubt that the people live healthy like the idea of paying less and the people who don’t live healthy don’t like the idea of paying more but I only have one statement. I think there is only one point here to and that is this is my life to live not yours or the goverment to tell me how to live. I don’t break the law, so why aren’t more people concerned about the goverment intruding into our lives. You give them an inch and they will take foot. I will not become a good little soilder. Sorry it will not happen.

Good morning all…..Lt. Col. Oral D. Miller, Ret, passed away Sept 27, 2009….survived by his three children, 11 grandchildren, and 16 great grandchildren & many friends all over the globe. He received the Purple Heart, serving bravely in both WWII & the Korean War. An avid aviator, devoted explorer and seeker of all things extra ordinary. Known fondly as O.D., Daddy or Grandpa, he has gone home to be with his loving wife Jeanne and the Lord.
I wish to thank everyone for their words of comfort offered to myself and my family. Gini

I agree Kay….it would be a surcharge

Marine1967~~~ Good points made. Love the one about the trash, same here. Ticks me off I don’t have as much as some of the other folks around here so I’m I paying for them to pick-up all of there loads of trash? Sorta the same concept to the Insurance issue.

Don’t think we have to worry about them charging rated like this . Hell they can’t figure out the regular insurance problem now!!!!!

More:

Also, advocate major medical only.
Consumer owned, not employer provided. (transportable)
Open all companies in US to every state in US (TRUE competition)
No tax credits, refunds, subsidies, fines, imprisonment, etc.

Hey Lady ” Gini”, Welcome back! Again my thoughts are with you & your family. Missed you!

Who’s going to be the one to tell Michael Moore that he’s no longer allowed to eat an entire hog in one sitting?

Wow….this is awesome….what an intelligent discussion this morning. Great job everyone.

Hello Gini. Sorry to hear about the old solider. I hope his passing was gentle.

My love and prayers to you and the family.

chas

Alisyn,
I got up to the story on meddling with genes for a particular outcome. The prob with that, of course, is there is no crystal ball, and no guarantee of the “outcome” of this sort of meddling around. It certainly is not something I would think was ok. Seems harmless on the face of it, to some, but to me…YIKES!!! A huge leap to assume anyone knows the future, I think….or at least, one might assume as much.

So funny you guys should bring this up today…I just received a letter from my health insurance company this week that states that they will be only offering the 80/20 plan to non-smokers beginning July, 2010. Members who are smokers can only be enrolled in the 70/30 Basic plan with a higher deductible, higher copayments, and less coverage. They say they will regulate this by giving random tobacco tests in the workplace. (I am a state employee.) Beginning July, 2011, they will add a weight management component along with the tobacoo free component in order to remain on the 80/20 plan. In order to meet the guidelines, one must have a BMI less than 40 kg/m2, or have a physician-certified medical condition that prevents this required BMI. In 2012, the BMI requirement goes down to 35 kg/m2 in order to remain on the 80/20 plan. I have to say, I was shocked when I was reading this. I didn’t realize this was something that my insurance company could put into effect so easily. It is apparantly a part of a Comprehensive Wellness Initiative contained in a law that was passed by our governor in April, 2009. It is the state health plan for teachers and state employees. This is no longer a “what-if”, this is already happening.

Gini,
Im so sorry to hear about your father,my prayers are with you and your family,
may he rest in peace.

OK Alisyn, I sympathize with your assessment, but there are many questions you need to answer first. Also, what is the cost of your scaled approach? First, the issue: how do you measure risky health behavior? OK, you say smoking is risk? Sounds logical. What about car racing, sky diving, snorkling, scuba diving, motorcycle driving? Whats your answer. Im sure you will say that this should also be a reason to increase, correct? Now, what about old age and what about homosexuality, or someone who is just sexually “busy”. Old Age, well we know the older you get the more you cost (we do it for life insurance, right). Hmmm, what about homosexuality? We all know that AIDS is linked directly to the transfer of bodily fluid, and is prevalent in the homosexual (male – male) community. How do you handle this? This is risky behavior, isnt it? Well, the probably will answer this question with: “well you can wear condoms”, right? I would rely, I wear a parachute when I skydive, I wear a seat belt and helmet when I race, I wear a tank and test my oxygen gear when I scuba dive, I wear body armor helmet boots and gloves when I ride my bike, aren’t those the same. So, who will manage your system? What bureaucratic monstrosity will manage this system and determine my new rate? Who determines someones appropriate weight (bodybuilders weigh more since muscle is heavier than fat). And finally, think of the law suites and all the court costs. So do you really want this????????????

DogOnCrack Embarrassed to say he’s from here–YUK! I’ve seen him ~~~OH WOW what a SAD SITE!!! OOPS~~~SLOB

Part of the problem is the use of health benefits as employee compensation. The increase in premiums for all of us is the unfettered benefits for large pools of people with a multitude of health issues. It is in essence “government” insurance. The powerful unions insist on the best of the best and it effects they entire system.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091004/OPINION03/910040307/1008/OPINION01/Teacher-perks-bleed-budget-dry

Again, when we allow large special interest groups to negotiate for us, we lose our personal power. Rarely are we informed how these benefits affect the institution for we work. Check out the above story.

Smokers die. They cost less (healthcare).

Smokers die. They cost more (life insurance).

Yes I agree , Ifyou live ahealthy lifestyle, and are within certain weight perimeters your health care should be less than if you are overweight, smoke,do not excercise etc. it is the fair way to charge for your health care

Hi Chas…it’s all ok, and the Palliative Care unit was wonderful, despite my hysteria!!! Geezzz…now, I certainly could have used a “gene” to prevent YIKES behavior. Definitely a comedy, in retrospect…poor nurses. They didn’t know what to do with me, except “pat me a lot”….anxiously awaiting the daughter to come. I did have a HUGE urge to smack the next person that patted me, softly saying “….he’s comfortable and in no pain”. YIKES again!!! They handed me a box of kleenex abt the size of a postage stamp…now I ask you allllllllllllllllllllllllllll…at those prices, one might think the large man size kleenex would be more appropriate??? YIKES, again!!! lol

Who ’s slogan & what was it

What happens when the negotiated benefits become taxable income? I’ll bet those of us who never gave it a thought will suddenly wake up! Our teachers have health benefits that are worth well over $1400 a month. They will pay a pretty tax penny for those, won’t they. I am not anti-teacher…I am against the strong- armed unions that force teachers to become pawns in the union power struggle.

Off to church, Gini a special prayer for you and your family. May he rest in the loving arms of ouir Lord and savior. God bless one and all.

Colleen: Do you get the Detroit News? http://www.detnews.com/article/20091004/OPINION03/910040307/1008/OPINION01/Teacher-perks-bleed-budget-dry

Hellooo darlin Gini. so glad you are back and I can tell you how sorry I am that your daddy passed.

Gini~~~:) They handed me a box of kleenex abt the size of a postage stamp…now I ask you allllllllllllllllllllllllllll…at those prices, one might think the large man size kleenex would be more appropriate??? YIKES, again!!! lol
Those are the ones that pretty much feel like sandpaper! Also probably cost the insurance Co. 5:00 a box!

Good Morning .. I agree with most of the comments here. If it comes down to “cafeteria” health insurance, then I don’t want to contribute to people who get fertility treatments, in vitro fertilization, are obese, drink alcohol, partake in illegal drugs, live a life style conducive to aids and sexually transmitted diseases, etc. So who will we trust in Big Government to determine who gets insurance and who doesn’t. Ultimately we will have a huge welfare state funded solely by the few working middle class folks. Also, I do not believe in genetic testing. Who has the right to play God with my life.

Hi Gini I am so sorry to hear about your dad.. I always thought he’d be around longer than my mom who is still hanging in. (Barely) My prayers go out to you and your family…..

Sharynn,

Regarding your 7:44 position on State Lines Insurance, I take it you are not an advocate of this suggested solution.

And….who determines if health issues are at the ‘risk’ point? The Ins. co? or your own Dr.? Ohhhh….I see…if this bill goes through with Gov. run health care, who cares…right? Its all the same! Like an HMO with the Gov. at the head of the table!! As expensive and as high as my deductable has gotten with my existing PPO, I just might, I say might…begin to like it. And yes, its a group, out of OH but purchased in KY…(this year!!) over state lines. (?!) A group, who says Ins. Co. is complaining about the amount of claims and raises the rates astronomically (so the co. says) every year! Now, in saying this, who says this expense charged to the Co., isn’t genetic or even a heart attack that is being argued by genetics or previous condition. (stressful job?) My sister had to fight Ins. Co. over throat cancer found in my 4 year old nephew, because they said it was determined to be caused from constant strep throat and ear infections!! Hmm…bacteria now a risk factor?? Good lawd!! Where would it stop??

Eating well and exercising and not smoking or not doing drugs and not drinking adult beverages is not a guarantee that you won’t develop an illness. I agree it might minimize the chance but I know of people who are darn near tri-athletes who have dropped dead. I just don’t think any of use should have to be monitored while huge groups of people get what ever insurance they get through what ever program and are not subject to the same scrutiny.

Carolyn, no I don’t. Stopped getting all papers years ago when I found I can read it on here & the up side is I get to pick what I want to read. By the way are you enjoying this sinus weather & have you turned your furnace on yet? Sure did miss summer this year.

I think it would be good to define “health insurance”

Health insurance should be to offset risk, not health MAINTENENCE.

Which is why I advocate major medical only.

Infertility (mentioned by one poster) is not a “health risk” it’s a “problem”.

Think people, JUST LIKE AUTO INSURANCE. All the risk factors are calculated (including zip code and number of accidents THERE) and your premium is based on those.

What’s the big deal…this would be MARKET DRIVEN, NOT GOVT MANDATES.

That’s something all together different.

** BIG TAX BREAKS for charitable giving to PRIVATE NFP HOSPITIALS.
Get everyone off of the Nanny State.

We are already paying for the risky behaviors of others—-it’s called Medicaid——It’s unreal how many of those on Welfare believe their health care insurance is an entitlement, without lifting a finger to be a productive member of society. Their poor habits such as eating twinkies and fast food incessantly, doing drugs, gang related violence, alcohol abuse, etc, etc, are costing us billions of dollars each and every day. They have NO responsibility in regards to being part of the solution–they just keep sucking the system dry. And since they don’t pay, those costs are transferred to those that are insured—hence high health care costs!

And it’s generational—i have seen families over the past 20+ years use and abuse the system. They use the ER for every stubbed toe and snotty nose—their lists of ER visits in the computer system are miles long and each time they come for this kind of stuff it’s costing us the taxpayer BOAT LOADS of money. Yet, they are not expected to give anything back to society or bear any responsibility to the cost of their healthcare. And these are the same people who show up with their fancy phones, ipods, designer clothes, manicured nails, etc—but they can’t afford a co-pay??

And then on the flip side, those that are truly in need, who ARE working and trying to make it, who are living paycheck to paycheck are getting the shaft—-

How about if productive behavior is rewarded with benefits—and until you do so—well, figure it out

Check your facts. Athletes have much higher rates of going to the doctor/ER than do smokers. Many more people die from obesity-related illness than do smoking-related illness. What about folks who live in high crime areas? What about folks who chose to live in NYC, a known terrorist target area? But once again smokers are the politically correct villain.

hi ali,
people with unhealthy life styles will pay more-we will all be taxed on everything that may lead to an unhealthy life style-sugar,salt,oils,fats,motorcycles,atv’s,boats,cars,etc.
secret ingredient for a bloody mary-horseradish

Welcome back Gini-I am sorry for the reason you were away-my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family-However it is comforting to know the ‘Old Soldier’ is with your mother and in the hands of God.

WHAT WERE the FOOTBALL picks again??? who did they pick?

Comment by Cathy:
Why not also charge more for anyone who drinks? who particpates in sports and are more likely to get injured? who drive over the speed limit? who are underweight and may get anorexia or bulimia or other ailments associated with the underweight? anyone who has children…why should the rest of us pay more to cover maternity insurance for those who want to have kids?

=================
Cathy,
Good point! I think my husband’s employers complaints about too many illness and increased health payments has just hit a new high! Thnx

Gini,

I’m sure your father is in heaven eating cookies. I’m sure he’s watching his daughter and saying: among her other accomplishments, she is the Cookie Czar.

you don’t want to go there..once you open that door into subjective interpretation of what is healthy or not is sometimes controlled by the minority who hollers the most..remember the bacon cancer or the wooden/plastic cutting board scares of past years..look at the green home/environment implications that could be imposed upon us…trust this ole grandma…don’t even think it!!

Comment by Me
October 4th, 2009 at 8:15 am

WHAT WERE the FOOTBALL picks again??? who did they pick?
======================
I’ll post them after the show Eileen.

chas

Chicago over Detroit
Houston over Oakland
New England over Baltimore
Denver over Dallas
thats my picks Eileen.

Newark Airport is run by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. The Mayor of Newark has nothing to do with the day to day operations.

I can’t find a place to email you so will send this – On your Sunday show you had someone who talked about the book THE UPSIDE OF FEAR. Could you email me the author’s name? Thanks!

Colleen…yes, sandpaper would be an excellent description. Too funny!!! I needed a TOWEL actually…too funny!!! oh my my my…my niece and my daughter posted pictures of Dad on facebook, wearing his tux, made for him in Hong Kong, in the 50’s. He could still wear it, and did for my nephew’s wedding. He looks soooooo handsome! lol He did not look his age at all {turned 87 on 9/12} so the nurses thought he was younger….what a guy! lol

The e-mail addy is: friends@foxnews.com

chas

Geezzzz Sal, nobody mentions the 2010 Super Bowl winner, the Vikings (over Green Bay on Monday night)

Furthermore, pretty much all the smokers I know have NOT benefited from all the smoking bans. Instead they’ll smoke 4 cigarettes on their break instead of one. Instead they’ll drive through McDonald’s instead of going to a restaurant. And the new cigarettes that supposedly go out in order to prevent fires only force the smoker to constantly suck on their cigarette in order to keep it lit. The new smoking ban laws are merely for the “comfort” of some — those who do not like the smell of cigarettes — not for health reasons.

Sorry to hijack the subject.

1. In West Virginia, Public Employees Insurance Agency (PEIA) state run employee health insurance has been charging smokers higher rates for 10+ years.

2. Also, PEIA premiums are based on your income—the more you make the higher your premium and deductibles.

Dom

Great Chas I was just glade I didnt miss them & have to dig to find it

Thank Sal

T’s picks are

Detroit
Huston
Baltimore
Denver

Morning all, welcome back GINI.

Insurance is a game of odds. As in Vegas, odds are in the house’s favor!!! They win, U loose.

Good Morning Marine, the Vikings look good.
Morning Carolyn.

Hi Frank and Sal

Good Morning Frank.

Conan O’Brien also played this video on his show but the original Obrien clip link was scrubbed from youtube. But here’s the video without the O’Brien intro.

Sesame Street’s Big Bird Wants Michelle Obama to Tell theTruth About Her Husband’s Birth Certificate

Rubie, that clip is funny…

Good Morning Alysin,

It is a myth that smokers impose higher healthcare costs on society than non-smokers. The Congressional Research Service said so, as well as noted economists like Kip Vicusi of Harvard. Even moderate taxation of tobacco, much less the current outrageous level of taxes, subsidizes the healthcare costs of non-smokers. And, are you really suggesting that we fine people for being fat? Should we also charge women more for health insurance than men, since women are known to use more health services? After all, women pay more to get their hair cut, too.

I think you’re missing the bigger picture here. Tolerance of liberty is the most basic precept underpinning a free country. Once we decide that freedom is the hostage of the national wallet, we can then de facto prohibit any activity of which we don’t approve by making it prohibitively expensive. Clearly, the health nuts haven’t stopped at just smoking. What makes you think they’ll stop with junk food? This isn’t a slippery slope, it’s a cliff.

One of the arguments against a public or single-payer insurance option is the moral hazard of having the government in a position to justify denial of services for which you’ve already paid (through taxes) based on what it decides is the most cost-effective way for you to live.

I wonder if Patrick Henry were alive today, he’d be screaming “Give me liberty or give me cheap health insurance”.

You should know better than that.

“IT WAS THIS BIG!”

http://tinyurl.com/y9lojw6

“That was just the appetizer!”

I actually saw Michelle O on a commercial with Ernie (I think it wa Ernie) this morning. Advertising a healthy lifestyle

Well boo hoo…the ghosts and gurus won’t let me post anything!!! YIKES! lol Bajette and Merle thanks…submit! for the zillinth {is that a word?} time!

Gini, zillion is a word…it is what the national debt will be when BO leaves office

My earlier post was to inform the folks on the curvy couch that this healthcare issue is already occuring. I was not complaining, but rather stating the facts. I read the article mentioned in an above comment about the teachers in Michigan bleeding the state budget dry. This is not the case in my state, I can tell you. We have no union, our salary is below the national average, and our employer compensated health care plan is no longer only paid by our employer. They did cut our salaries in my state, and they did so retroactively at the end of last school year. They took the entire cut out of our last paycheck of the school year. They also cut our health insurance coverage, raised the deductibles and co-payments, and we now pay into our health insurance each month. The state plan that is offered to us leaves much to be desired. In order to fully cover myself with health insurance, I also purchase supplemental insurance on my own to cover the gaps that the state plan leaves. The overall public perception is that teachers have it made in terms of high salaries and excellent health benefits. I can honestly say that this is not the case in my state. Again, I am not complaining, just stating the facts. It is what it is, and I choose to stay. However, I think it is important for people to know the truth.

Gini, I will never forget how you helped me after losing my Mom. I know now that she has never left me as she is in my memories & heart forever as she is apart of who I am. I have to chuckle @ myself when I’m doing something I can almost hear her voice telling me again how to do it. I never got the chance to take care of her as she never left the hospital & those nurse’s frown @ help which I also found myself thinking if they said another word I’d surly deck some of them! Know the Old Soldier is in heaven telling the Good Lord just how wonderful his daughter is & to send you special blessings. 87 years of a Very Proud life, we should live that long. Time for one of those Bloody Mary’s I think!

Hey Sal Thanks for remembering the Vikings!!!

Good Morning, Gang. Hope all are, and is, well.

What habits really are healthy and not, as distinguished from what those with an agenda might tut-tut against or cheer for?

The great health and running guru Jim Fixx, who was lithe and toned, died at 52; Lord Winston Churchill, who guzzled brandy daily, heavily smoked and chewed cigars, and ate what and when he wanted and was of dumpy/frumpy build, lived to almost 90. Who should have had better insurance rates?

Teachers at least in my District pay the majority of their health insurance cost on top of the deductable, co-pay and out of pocket expenses. I pay over $500.00 a month for my insurance and I am employed as a teacher full time. Teachers are not in it for the money or the insurance. If that were the case, there would be no teachers. So, agreeing with Jamie, not complaining, just stating the facts

Morning Cap. Good to see you.

chas

Your welcome Colleen.

Jimie, I had a number of friends who were teachers and you are so right. In many countries, like Japan and Russia, some of the best paid people in the work force are teachers. It helps attract and keep great dedicated teachers.

I am concerned about the healthcare bill (final version) is that it is a rush to pass and legislators will not have time to read, understand and cost it out before they vote. I say if anyone of them vote for a bill before they read and cost it out…turn them out regardless of party!!!

OMG !!! BABY CAYLEE she better not get off!!!!!!

Good Morning Alysin,
I know that you are off this subject but I don’t think that people that live in rural Tennessee should have to pay the medical expenses of a person that chooses to live in New Jersey because of the air you breath , Your are more likely to get sick with respiratory problems living there and it’s your choice to live there just like it a smokers choice to smoke.

CAP, great to see ya.

Don’t forget George Burns…cigars, manhattans every day…Glad you remember Jim Fixx…he is my model to people who say exercise makes you live longer…I say that is a myth…when it is your time, it is your time.

There is nothing new about the FBI botching things. They are not Efrem Zimbalists, you know. They are more often than not Keystone Kops, but just with bigger pretense.

Hi Alisyn,
Good show this morning as always. You are great whenever you are on air like around mid-week while working with Trace and it came time to “tease” Studio B with Shep. It was subtle and fun to watch but you had him almost speechless for a fleeting moment. Presence,ease and professionalism.
A joy to watch.
Paul–Eau Claire, Wisconsin.

Yo, chas; Frank C. Need my coffee AND Bloody Mary before I resume!

and a higher budget Cap

MIKE, under the current system insurance rates are set on a state by state basis. I agree with you but for that we need community rating where rates are set on “County or citywide” basis. If you live in Smog Jersey with all the refinery and NYC gas fumes you pay a higher rate than someone who lives in Shrewsbury NJ…

What? Government agencies are fallible? Who would have thunk it?

Colleen…a very VERY true comment and one never forgets…for sure! Especially mom, and ESPECIALLY when one has neglected to, for instance, MOP the kitchen floor. OMG…mom would be HORRIFIED! Yikes! for sure, and does provoke a smile along the way. I do talk to mom all the time {crazy ya know!} when these moments come. OMG…does this mean, speaking of such things, I will have to do this all myself now???? OH, for goodness sake. Haven’t been in the basement for several yrs now, as my daughter took care of cleaning and laundry all this time. Wonder is she’ll come for FREE!!!! ha hahahah ahaha …oh my my my! Toooooo funny. I wonder how the “new dryer” works??? YIKES!!! lol

Me~~Agreed!! Kids are not disposable like garbage nor are they like a outfit that you buy then decide you don’t like it so you return it! These are humans! That adoptive mother ought to be charged with Emotional damage to a child or @ the very least a Stupid Human!

what about that guy that just died in England (113?years old) smoked, ate bacon ,drank( good malt is the secret he said)

Yes, Olin….they are. All excpet the White House that is

Bonding? As the parent of a 23 year old and a 20 year old, I’m still waiting for that bonding thing. All I get is a dizzy feeling every time I write the check for college tuition.

Here are the Crews picks for Week 4

Alisyn
Chicago
Houston
New England
Denver

C layton
Chicago
Houston
Baltimore
Dallas

D ave
Chicago
Houston
New England
Denver

R ick
Chicago
Houston
New England
Dallas

chas

Cap, I remember covering Civil RIghts marches in the 60’s in rural Louisiana. The FBI stood out like a sore thumb…in a rural rural Louisiana town they were wearing long sleved white shirts and shades…

Pirro does not generally think there are big deals when it comes to evidence, once the government decides to go after someone, which is why she blocked Desk ovic from getting a DNA test – which was later obtained and proved him innocent – after he spent 16 years in prison for a crime he didn’t commit. Thanks to Pirro. She is not an authority on what evidence should support a conviction in this land of the Free.

It seems to me, sitting on the back of the turnip truck, that all the people that are claiming that they could not get insurance because of pre-existing conditions, could have purchased insurance BEFORE the pre-existing condition developed!!!

We have some good friends (he is in insurance) who gambled and did not take out coverage. All of a sudden, the wife has cancer and they are complaining. Seems to me that you reap what you sow.

I am not responsible for the irresponsibility of others ….preiod!!!

Gini, If anyone has set a good example of being a good daughter it’s you. That said maybe she”ll take the hint & keep doing it for you!!! Ply her with those famous cookies!!! LOL

Frank C, a retired one stood out as a sore thumb as a patent liar in a case I just worked on! But people too often don’t care if their government lies as long as promises of superficial “security” continue to be piously uttered, which is why it continues to lie.

I am glad to see my comment 7:29 this morning opened up a whole lot of thinking expecially appreciated John Ploschnitznig- Awl1614 and Kinda-thank you for taking the ball and running with it.

Hello Gini!! Great to see you back. You and your family are still in our prayers.

There was a guy back in 1930s Germany who wanted to control people’s health habits too!

He had a funny moustache.

Comment by Bev in OK
October 4th, 2009 at 8:18 am

you don’t want to go there..once you open that door into subjective interpretation of what is healthy or not is sometimes controlled by the minority who hollers the most..remember the bacon cancer or the wooden/plastic cutting board scares of past years..look at the green home/environment implications that could be imposed upon us…trust this ole grandma…don’t even think it!!
~~~~~~~~`
That abt covers it Bev…I certainly agree. Jamie…teachers are the best, and are the ones always miss treated when it comes to salaries and benefits. Strange, I think, when they have the most important job…teaching the children of America, how to read and write…listen, think and discern. yep! Very good comment, at 8:41a.

Hey Dog you still up?

It’s been a good morning. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and company. Have a great week.

Ms Alisyn, good luck with your picks this week.

chas

Dog,

And, thinking of the report this morning, wasn’t that guy in the 30s also thinking and doing a little with genetics … something like the “Master Race”

Can anyone explain to me why a new STIMULUS when we have not spent the first one-if we need more money for unemployment-which is desperately needed-then why not from the first STIMULUS -that was supposed to create jobs and if it did-then we would not need it for unemployment-now would we.
Since there was only 15% or so spent on the first STIMULUS then ??????????? please someone help as I truly would like an answer-This is not a left or right issue-I would just like an Honest Answer to an Honest Question- Although there was not anything honest with why we were rammed with the first STIMULUS to begin with.

Olin…thank you for all your emails of comfort. lol You guys are the best of the very best! lol We are all fine…but dad will be missed. Hubby has lost his best bud! YIKES! He was a rock…and I know he was as broken as I was. He will miss dad terribly! lol

Eileen, I know what you’re thinking but I DID go to bed last night believe it or not. LOL

Cap, so true….but better 100 guilty go free than 1 innocent be convicted. It is a tough premise, but we are a nation of laws!

Dom, I think you might just be right about that.

Thank you, Gini…I appreciate that!

Marine and Erik…as I recall, YES! “he” was. Of course, one might have to have a bit of history along the way to recall that, or one might be persuaded this is all a good plan. OH MY MY MY! We shall hope there are still enough of us alive, to prevent anything like that happening again. lol

Oh I believe you went to bed & betting in your birthday suit LOL

I so understand that adoptive mom’s pain as the mom of a 12yr old bio daughter and a 9yr old adopted son from Kazakhstan. Our lives have been in turmoil ever since we adopted our son when he was 22 months old. Who knows the trauma he went through in the orphanage, but he is unable and unwilling to accept the love of a mom and dad and sister. It is pure torture for us to know that all we wanted to do was give this child a home and love and he rejects it at every step. There is no help for people like us and then u have people like the Judge who thinks someone would purposely do this to gain attention or stardom! Live in the shoes of this type of family for a month. Feel our pain.

Bajette — Obama wants to keep most of the spending for Stimulus 1 to pay out before the 2010 elections. If things look better in quarters 2 & 3 of 2010, the Dems will lose less seats. At least that is their strategy.

I agree that we should just stop the original Stimulus. It is doing more harm than good with all the restrictions that all work must be done by Union members, etc.

One that does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it …. seems someone said something like that

Baj…that is the first half of the first bill, not the second bill which Obama signed…oh that’s right the second was signed by Bush after he left office.

As I have stated previously, Michigan is highly influenced by the erstwhile auto company unions and has the 4th highest paid teachers in the US. I do not say all teachers are over paid or influenced by unions but here in Michigan the rank for pay and benefits behind New York, New Jersey and Connecticut.. That is saying lot. With the downturn in our economy for the last 7 years, it is being hard-felt by school districts and is being scrutinized for the first time by the newspapers. We just do not have the tax base here any longer to support where were are with public employee pay.

Jamie…the family is sprinkled with teachers on both sides, as well as good friends to day, who teach…a difficult vocation, fraught with huge responsibilities, and it does make one’s head spin all the way around, when politics get in the way of it all. Teachers are definitely one of the groups I consider heroes. For sure! lol Huge sacrifice, little recognition, and every single Monday morning quarterback, thinking they could do it better. That the teacher doesn’t run screaming into the night, is a constant mystery to me. lol

Eileen, don’t be silly.
I was obviously far too drunk to undress myself.
Besides, Sandi is currently 1,000 miles away.

Well, it has been fun all…have a great week

Good Morning to everyone!!

Gini its so good to see you! My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family! ~Hugs~

In my opinion, a good Bloody Mary always includes Tabasco and Worchestershire Sauce….I’ve also had a couple with horseradish in them…..that was different….but the other two are just necessary, and not everyone includes them….weird huh?

DOG, glad U enjoyed the day

Bajette….we can’t figure out why any of it was passed in such haste the first time, so I guess there is no answer to any of the reason’s for anything that goes on in this chaotic, unfocused, new admin. lol I guess if one can create enough chaos, one gains some power….like, HEY! I can “fix” it all folks. We will hope no one is buying that one. Whew! Scary, for sure. lol We continue to pray sanity returns…

Speak of the devil!

Hi Sandi…and thank yu for your lovely email! That was so nice! Everyone has just been over the top wonderful. I know it has brought comfort to the family and myself. Alisyn sent a lovely note to me, and I do appreciate her taking the time out of her busy schedule to take a sec…very nice group of friends, for sure. lol

Haa Erik I seen that Haaaa almost man almost

Gotta go all …. the boss (wife) just figured out I was playing with my friends instead of the honeydo list. It was a very pleasant, intelligent and cordial discussion this morning …. awesome. Be well all and stay safe.

Insurance is legalized gambling. Your ante – premium – gets and keeps you in the game. The insurance company House gets to use your money for investments, which haven’t paid out too well of late. So it comes as no surprise that the next effort is to hedge their bets by stacking the deck against us (patients – policyholders – bettors). From genetic predispositions to individual “risk factors” actuaries place financial value on these to maximize profits or mitigate loss, and is theoretical applied math at best. Place your bet.

By the by….I did fix the breakfast pizza shown on yesterday’s show, and it was EXCELLENT. Made quite a hit with the crowd over here to say bye to sis….yummy and as easy as he said it was. Too fun! on a gloomy day. I simply MUST play the lottery, and win, of course!!!!

Thats right Erik…all you have to do is mention me and I magically appear….THAT is my Superpower!!LOL!!!!

radar love is what it is !!

OK I’m looking for the post of the football picks so I’ll be in & out

My Mom has Macular Degeneration. She has never smoked nor been around smoke in her life. Her Dr. accused her smoking and not telling the truth because this disorder has been labled as a smoking related. I also had a neighbor that was accused of smoking when he never has. This is a very slippery slope when your Dr. asccuses you of lying when you aren’t and now we are going to have to pay more for health ins. because DR’s are Biased and accuse you of lying?

Lynn…a true story, and dad had the same disease of the eye…right eye only. The doc did not accuse him of anything. Part of the info sheet, when he went, but no accusation one way or the other. Dad did not smoke or drink, being an ol’ Okla Baptist. I can’t imagine a doc being so dumb? Even if one smoked all the time, why would it matter? The disease still needs to be treated, and the earlier the better, of course. My eye doc is chking me sooner than later for this, because of dad…and I do smoke. He hasn’t said a word to me abt that being an issue. Of course, generally, all the docs suggest one should consider quitting. I am now, giving that doc, a VIRTUAL SMACK! What a jerk! lol

Gini….I’m so sorry about your loss of your Dad. I was going to lurk out here until I read all the posts (and probably just said nothing….wasn’t a good day last evening or night…but a great day before that with all the good wishes from here!) but when I saw you were back I had to say ‘Hiya’ to you until I read on. I hope you are being honest with all here and you are doing as well as you say…but I’m going to still say a few prayers for you for those quiet times when it really gets hard. Welcome back at any rate…you look wonderful!

My Mom had diabetes and began suffering kidney failure in 2002. Her insurance wouldn’t cover a transplant, and her doctors didn’t recommend it either and they both used the same reasons….that she was too old and it would be a “waste” of an organ. She was 69 at the time. She passed away in 2007 of total organ failure.

Anyway, I always felt that Mom got screwed by her doctors and her insurance. Seems to me that Obutthead’s DeathCare Plan will only make it worse for other people in the same situation.

Clearly, individual privacy rights are more important. When an insurance company’s financial interests meet patient privacy and rights to choose (think Roe v Wade), those who do not engage in certain behaviors will vilify those who do. Especially if it is presented that overeaters, smokers, drinkers, etc, are the cause of increasing rates. Off with their heads!
Give me liberty or give me health?! What would Patrick Henry say?
When will the erosion of and attack on individual privacy rights end?
Where in the Constitution is the government empowered to legislate health?
How long before insurance industry regulation negatively affects people’s health and thus becomes an enemy of the people?
This whole thing is a Pandora’s Box of medical, ethical and socioeconomic ills.

Hi Caver…my posts are not posting. And of course, ONLY the most excellent ones {ha ha!!!} are sailing into cyber space! ~~giggle~~ Yep…we are all just fine. Sad, of course, but fine. I am sure the weeping isn’t over, but of course, I consider that healthy, so no probs there. Just need to be sure to have “manly kleenex” on hand, hum? One does tend to leak fr the eyes and nose at those moments, and calls for a substantial “hanky” every time!! Thank you honey…glad you are feeling better today. lol
Jenny…I am sending that dumb doc a virtual SMACK!!! Outrageous behavior. grrrrrrrr

Gini, Im so sorry to hear about your dad, my prayers are with you and your family,
may he rest in peace.

<—- heads into the mens room and cranks out four feet of that browm 'manly Kleenex' stuff for her wondering what she needs brown 'note paper' for….

Ed…exactly!

brown….even….ugh…I shouldn’t be typing at all….lol

by the by…I would have emailed you too…but I can’t if I don’t know ‘where’ to send it. Maybe someone who has my addy could offer it to you?

I would of emailed you Gini, but I dont know your emial address,
so I emailed Pat.

Thanks Sal. We are taking him home next month…back to his beloved Texas!! to be with mom. Of course, it wasn’t HER beloved spot~~laughing~~so we are all having a good laugh over that one. Sis thinks we should sprinkle a few ashes out at the airport, in front of the airport managers office, as they did not get along, and dad got along with everyone. A mean spirited fellow, on might think? Yep…prob didn’t like it that Governor G. Bush, came by that small airport, and shook dad’s hand personally…something abt him being the oldest pilot with the most clearance for small aircraft and helicopters, for his age at the time, I think? Prob just plain JEALOUS, hum? I got a huge laugh over that one. This fam is definitely not lacking in humor!!!! Of course, dad was a hoot, and we sure enjoyed his ever present humor, even with the Alzheimer’s disease.

Ed suggests that insurance is like gambling… yep. You’re betting that you will get sick, the insurance company is betting that you won’t.

It seems to me the only way to win is to smoke, drink and eat twinkies, preferably while sky-diving!

I suppose that if smoker’s should pay more, over-eaters should pay more, drinkers should pay more, soda junkies and twinkie junkies (did I leave anyone out?), then it only makes sense that embryos be screened for potential life diseases and should their parents elect to still allow them to be born… well, then they should have to pay more for that too.

Basically, everyone should have to pay more. In fact, everyone should just pay for themselves!

You can click my name, and it will take you to Chas’ blog, and fr there, one can get my email address. I tried to put it here, but it keeps flying into cyber space. This is a better plan perhaps, as you will get an opportunity to read Chas’ blog, which is always a pure pleasure! lol

Oh…you will have to post a comment asking for my address…should have noted that. My email isn’t posted on his blog, but he does have it, of course. lol ha! Geezzzzzz…my brain, ya know. lol YIKES! lol

Comment by Bajette
October 4th, 2009 at 7:29 am
Blaming the smoker and overeater is like blaming everything on BUSH-
What about the DRUG ADDICT-CRACK HEAD-ALCOHOLIC-OH,that’s right-they don’t pay for health insurance-I forgot MEDICAID-.

I love your comment! so so TRUE!

Thanks Gini….. I will go there in a little while.

I think I meant I was sending a virtual SMACK, to that doc, who treated Lynn’s mom. YIKES! Jenny can use the virtual smack for all the dumb people she encounters as she tries to do her job!!! lol ~~chuckle~~

I did get a kick out of that guy who ate the granola kicking the bucket long before old age but that just went to prove that having stats to die by never proves a thing. I know heavy smokers that started smoking at 8 years old and smoked ‘lucky’s ‘ (a pun right there?) all his life when he wasn’t smoking cigars down till they burned his lips, finally died at 93… and he was at the bar earlier that day. And we blame second hand smoke for lung cancer….of a person that lived their otherwise healthy life in Los Angeles. No way it could have been the smog though. It was that dang smoker they were married to. And before you start on me for defending either habit…I quit smoking on 4/13/98 and I haven’t had a drink since 2005…June I think. I am just saying…they have no real idea what really is killing these people, and as far as being overweight, that can be a lot more than just what people eat. I have a friend-girl that has a thyroid condition that her doctors can’t seem to fix…she eats nothing and gains weight…and I’ve had friends that eat like they weigh 400lbs. and are skinny as a rail. I think it’s all about metabolism myself, but I’m not a doctor. Maybe those doctors are too smart for their own good… can’t see the forest for the trees maybe, or maybe just have zero common sense. Thats my two cents anyway.

Gini,

OR, I could just send you each others address since I have them both. OH wait, I just did.

chas

caver,

My grandfather use to say you go when the good Lord calls you, not a minute before or later.

I believe that there a certain amount of truth in that statement.

chas

MetalGirl1, Sorry that you lost your Mom, I also lost mine. She was only “69″, that’s young. Doctor’s really think they are God sometimes! Had a friend who is just a wee bit older then I had not one but two heart bypass’s ( a couple @ a time blocked (, dumb as* ), just went out both times & smoke drank basically did nothing right. To me that’s a waste!
Yes I agree w/you about o’s plan we will all be in trouble!

I’m glad you saw what I really said chas…lol thanks… and the other was my ‘motto’ as well… When the man upstairs calls your number…thats it….and until then I’m going to enjoy LIVING my life….well… up until 2004 I did. But I got my money’s worth out of the time I had to make up for the other. I’ve been places that only a few hundred have seen….. in all time. I feel privileged.

Wow, Gini, sorry to finally realize what people are talking about. Words alone can bring little comfort, and maybe might trivialize the depth of the loss and pain, so I shan’t supply any, other that to say I am very sorry and I hope you can find a measure of peace. Take care, Dear Gini.

I have posted my address here many times, and so far, have not had a prob at all. It won’t post today for some reason, but it certainly is not a secret…. Hi Chas…I agree of course, which is what I told the doc, when he said it’s up to you Mrs O’Keefe, re: DNR application. Well NO, actually doc. He isn’t going anywhere until he’s called home by his Savior, and you, in the mean time need to take care of him, as a physician, and God’s earthly hand, {regardless of specific personal faith}. Check your DNR on the living will, cause it ain’t what you think you have, maybe, folks!

Chas, your Grandfather was a very smart man. I also believe in that statement, also that we will all meet again. When my cousin (who was more like a sister born 3 days apart), was @ the end (passed away fr aids-One wrong person), we were talking or I should I was. I asked her her if she was ready to go home & she squeezed my hand & nodded her head, then I asked if she could see Grandma yet (she raised her), & again she nodded & squeezed my hand. About 15 minutes later she was gone. So yes I believe.

Colleen,

Its always amazed me with how cold and uncaring people in the medical profession can be, and how backwards it all is. I mean, they do treat people who constantly abuse themselves with more urgency, and importance than someone who could’ve truly benefitted in the long term from a transplant or bypass operation, or anything life-saving like that. It is disgusting…

Boy, did I think of yu Cap, that day. Five professionals couldn’t figure out what DNR and heroic measures, meant! I have tried to post this comment multiple times today, and it isn’t posting. Thanks…we are fine, really. Another gone, of the “best generation”, I think? lol Yep…. I should have had your phone num, and let you handle the fools! YIKES! lol and WHEW! That was the grp that wouldn’t let me in, because it was “not visiting hrs”, ya know. AFTER I told them who I was, who they had in that ICU unit, and was the POA as well as the daughter. huh? They told me three times…”It’s not visiting hrs, you will need to come back”. huh? and HUH??? An angel came along and opened the door for me. Just appeared {I swear}, put his hand on my shoulder, pressed a few nums into the keypad swiped his card, and as the doors opened, pointed for me to go in. Looked back to thank him, and he was GONE…one long hallway, and he was GONE! I know…hubby just “patted me” and said, that’s nice, honey! ~~giggle~~ an angel, I say!!!!

They try not to get too close so they can stay objective….and think of the pain it would cost them if they attached themselved to too many people.

Insidious. Now there is an excellent word to describe both the Legislative and Executive branches.

Cap, you pretty much summed it up.
There’s little one can say that won’t sound rhetorical and gratuitous.
The old soldier has gone home to God.
You may weep for Gini and her family but you must rejoice for him.

Very good words, Dog. Good ones to live by as well as die by.

Caver,

Thats true I guess…its just hard to understand sometimes when you are so close to a situation. That sense of loss and grief can be overwhelming.

Beautifully said Erik.

Of course, we had already had one encounter with Nurse “Ratchet”, that involved the hospital administrator…they were on my speed dial. Well, actually, on my daughter’s speed dial. They missed that bullet, with the arrival of “the angel”. YIKES! The Palliative Care unit was nice. I don’t agree~~I think to be a good physician and nurse, one must be involved with each patient. Being removed fr, would and should, make the job harder. One might think it is a personality thing, as it would be a component of choosing that as a vocation? lol

MetalGirl1, you are so right. Although I must say that if it was left up to some nurse’s & they would take there advice on some issue’s I wonder if the outcome would would be different @ times. Each time I was in my niece who is ICU R.N. as with my Mom she would be there taking care of us also & she is not one to back off if she doesn’t think the Doctor is not doing some thing right. Or another nurse. I like my Dr he listens to me & doesn’t discount my ideas or thoughts & I think that is very important to have. He doesn’t just treat the problem he wants to now how I got what ever, also wants to know about my life. We discussed o’stupids health plan which he doesn’t approve of also!!!

I just meant that they coudn’t get too close to their patients as it would take from another patient if you were too involved in one case over another. Of course they have no place in medicine if they aren’t a caring person in the first place. I was thinking on the ‘you can’t please everyone’ point of view. Least, thats what I thought I was thinking.

Gini,

I also have encountered doctors that made me ask myself, “Why on earth did they choose to be a doctor?” Their bedside manner just SUCKED, quite frankly. And I’ve noticed that alot of doctors are dumber than a bag of hair when it comes to relating with and dealing with people. They’re like robots sometimes…..

Have a great day all, I need to scoot.

<—- waves on his way out the door….

I just wnated to see if my handle is fixed now…it didn’t wanna be clickable….LOL!!

The nurses are the eyes and ears of the doc, so when one encounters a Nurse Ratchet, it’s alarming. Colleen…one wonders, quite normally, if it all got done correctly. One is certain, however, that your mom and my mom and dad, were being watched over by a loving savior, and attentive fam. The kids, along with Mike and I, were there with him 24/7, just abt. Julia and Lisa {fam friend, and caregiver} were there when they moved him to the ICU. I was at work, but had already told the powers that be I might be closing early. The boss was in Washington, doing the Hike the Hill, for credit unions…Julia called, I closed the office, and dashed…i.e. only to be told upon arrival “It’s not visiting hours, you will have to come back”, three times!!!!! I NEEDED CAPS PHONE NUM, I say!!!! OH..got an angel instead, would seem.

Have a great day Caver. Are you doing the boot scooting boogie out the door! LOL

Sandi…doctors should have a liaison between himself and the family, for sure. It would be nice if they were all a bit more patient oriented, but they can and should hire someone to do that for them, if they don’t wish to do it themselves. I too, have encountered a few, but am not above just telling them in no uncertain terms, I am not stupid, neither am I required to speak “doctor language”…speak to me in language I can understand, please, and we can talk abt the care. Geezzzzzzzz! I have a very large capacity to understand most of what you wish to say, but medical terms might be outside my pervue probably! Those docs this time in the ICU unit, were just not helpful at all, but they were very nice. Of course, I had the very clearly written Living Will thang, with a very clear DNR statement. Geezzzzzzz, again! lol Chk your DNR folks. That’s my words of wisdom, after this episode at the hospital with dad. lol YIKES! lol

And put Caps phone num in your speed dial!!!!! lol

Gini, my love and prayers are with you and your glorious family. You’ve not left my thoughts or prayers since I first heard of your father’s hospitalization. I can’t say anything more to add to Dog’s eloquent words. He is home, and I rejoice for him, but I have shed many tears thinking of the ones he left behind. Much love to you, my dear.

Gini I’m so sorry that you had to deal with idiots @ such a time. What fool doesn’t know what a DNR is! For jeez sake it doesn’t mean Department of Natural Resources in a hospital!!!

However now that you bring it up after my Mom asked me to do what she had written in her living will, I do recall that the one idiot Dr wouldn’t do it due to his religion! What the sam Hell. He made my poor Dad go the family Dr & get it again ( the original paper), before they would do it! And get this that DR left the floor also! It’s cruelty to the family & patient!

Gini,Hey I went to chas blog to find yr e/mail. No such luck. I logged in to start a blog awhile back sadly it was one of those days when one shouldn’t be on modern tech machine!! Boggled my mind Day!

I should have called you…but I couldn’t seem to pick the phone up! YIKES! One of those moments when the dishwasher was just toooooooooooo hard to unload, ya know? ~~giggle~~ even tho we know it only takes three minutes, tops? lol YIKES! Jeanne and the kids and hubby {who was just so sad} were just wonderful, as well as you guys, and friends “not in cyber space”

Sterling…yikes. your 11:37 comment! Geezzzzzzz…my 11:52 comment was for you, specifically. YIKES again! My brain…can you read minds, I hope??? ~~chuckle and chortle~~ to quote Chas. lol

Reading minds is one of my specialties, Gini!

Colleen…you have to leave a comment, and he will send me your address. OOPS! Forgot to say that out loud, cause my email is not actually on his site…he has my email, however, so since it won’t let me post it here, a comment on his blog, will connect us. lol

Colleen….You can also click Sterlings name, and she will pass you on to me also. lol I sent a message to you on twitter, I think?

~~giggle~~I sure hope so Sterling. Colleen…again, you will have the huge pleasure of a goo read as well, but you must leave a comment, as well, on Sterling’s blog. lol

Oh my Loins got a touchdown! Wonders never cease!

Gini, I think we get your email when you leave a comment on one of our blogs.

Colleen…your LOINS??????

Colleen,

Have your loins, *chuckle*, check your e-mail. I sent you Gini’s addy.

chas

HAHAHA!!!!! Colleen is that a new addition to the NFL lineup? LMAO!!!

My puter completely froze up! YIKES! I did get the dishwasher unloaded in the interim, so will be able to fix dinner. I also discovered, I have tooooooooooo much stuff!!! Must do a bit of cleaning out now that the traffic here is diminished.

Ok Chas~~~ ~~~ I’m in AWE that they are tied!! Seeing how state almost shut down Friday maybe they decided to give us some kind of hope! Got yr mail Thanks.

MetalGirl1 & Frank LOL I just noticed what I did! LOL think I’ve been on here to long today! First time in awhile I have had the whole house to myself!

LIONS There is that better!

OMG….I am laughing hard now Colleen. I am putting my money on your team…The Loins.

Hi!
I would just like to say that I do not agree with this proposal. Will this apply to people on welfare? What about people who have conditions through no fault of their own, which results in weight gain that is almost impossible to control? Who is going to make these decisions? The people we don’t trust in congress? Or maybe the czars?

Colleen, I seem to make alot of typos like that too. However, mine aren;’t as funny as yours! LOL!! sorry…just kidding…It would be so cool if you would check out our little network!! http://conservathink.ning.com a cool place to hang out at!

We need a bit of this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C5Rnb7J3sU

chas

Sorry:

Chas, I think there’s a better solution.

http://www.schoolandstate.org

True that Dog, but I thought it was fun to hear this. It’s not a bad start.

chas

It was certainly a good laugh!

A wind-fanned wildfire that charred some 5 1/2 square-miles of the San Gabriel Mountains continued to rage Sunday as firefighters worked to prevent flames from advancing toward a mountain resort community.

The 3,500-acre Sheep fire, driven by wind gusts of up to 40 mph, destroyed three homes and was 10 percent surrounded.

Between 4,000 to 6,000 residents were ordered to evacuate, said Robin Prince, public information officer for the San Bernardino National Forest.

My puter completely froze up…thanks to everyone for all the prayers. Off to dinner and “a movie”…on the couch of course!!!! lol Tired…so am now going to go and rest a bit. Work tomorrow, ya know. lol

This Weeks results

Alisyn 4 – 0
C layton 2 – 2
D ave 4 – 0
R ick 3 – 1

That makes the standings:

1. Alisyn 13 – 3
2. R ick 11 – 5
3. D ave 9 – 7
4. C layton 8 – 8

All results pending official review.

chas

My picks today,
Chicago over Detroit
Houston over Oakland
New England over Baltimore
Denver over Dallas
4 & 0 today,
week1… 2 – 2
week2… 1 – 3
week3… 3 – 1
week4… 4 – 0
10 – 6

Not bad at all Sal. I’m not really picking or giving advice this year, but I’m 14 – 2. I figure that will go down next week. Just been lucky thus far.

Have a great evening my friend.

chas

I had a boss years ago who said doctors and lawyers are “educated beyond their ability to comprehend. I still think that’s so very true in too many cases.

The only flaw I see in that is he left out engineers…lol

chas

Vets who love their gov’t run healthcare…..

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aLIc5ABThjBk

Thanks Chas…. but I have to say… 14-2… is pretty good my friend,
hope the Steelers win tonight… it looks good so far… 28-0…they need to win,
you have a great night.

I think Alisyn should get a raise! She’s much better than “Froggy”!

Froggy Beck, who makes approximately $49,315.00 per day (weekends included), got an extra, unplanned, Monday off this week, but I am sure he didn’t relax. Knowing The Beckineer like I do, he, no doubt, spent Monday ferreting out more corruption in Washington, D.C. and putting the finishing touches on his next book which, I expect, will be a rewritten Bill of Rights, fully-illustrated with 4-colour cartoons. It’ll be called “How Idiots Talk to Founding Fathers.” Another best seller.

A week ago, Maria Gurrolla was celebrating the birth of her fourth child. A blue yard sign announced: “IT’S A BOY!” She visited a local welfare office that helps low-income mothers.

Then an attacker posing as an immigration worker arrived at her home south of Nashville, stabbed the 30-year-old mother and snatched away her 4-day-old son. The newborn was found safe, but after a brief reunion, state officials took the baby away from Gurrolla again, along with her other three children.

Now Gurrolla is left to wonder when she might see any of them again. A judge will review the case this week to determine when Yair Anthony Carillo and his siblings — ages 3, 9, 11 — can come home.

State officials say the children were taken into custody Saturday for safety reasons but have not offered details. A spokesman said a hearing must occur within three days of when the children were taken into state custody.

I don’t understand anyone who is against any one taking on the malignant corruption in DC. Some people should read about the institutional and pervasive garbage that goes unchecked because it has become more important to media figures and watch dogs to be members of the hoi poloi than to do their jobs- their protected jobs. I say hats off to Beck…Don’t kill the messenger. There are volumes of books which discuss history and reveal the back room dirty dealings done by presidents and congress all the way back to George Washington. No- it did not start with the Bush 43 presidency.

Israel has the right to defend themselves and should do so,
Netanyahu will protect his people and his country agaisnt Iran who wants to destroy them,
or in other words wipe them of the map….I think Israel will take out Irans Nuclear program,
and the rest of the world will approve of it, and the United States will defend Israel against Iran,
if we dont…….. its over for this Administration and the Democrats.

http://talkstreamlive.com/listen.aspx?s=2038

They Blame President Bush for not getting the Olympics?
President Obama needs to take Responsibility for all the problems the Democrats have created,
Democrats have been in power since 2006 and look at the mess we are in.

My dog peed on the carpet–it is Bush’s fault…..

Morning Carolyn.

The new Republican party has now officially been dubbed the party for “corporate communism” so I guess Beck is really not too far off on that! Corporations do run the country through their lobbys. Their followers (the non-rich people who support them) have been characterized as having the mentality of “bratty 13 year olds”. LOL

Of course Bush is to blame – he tarnished the reputation of the USA throughout the world.

Hey Carolynro – the “messenger” never checks his facts – that’s why he’s called an “entertainer”, and not a journalist.

The grass on my lawn isn’t as green as I’d like it to be and IT’S ALL BUSH’S FAULT!!!

WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/books/bestseller/besthardnonfiction.html?ref=books

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/books/bestseller/bestpapernonfiction.html?ref=books

come to the light lizard…come to the light!!! Hoot! Hoot!

The messenger always checks his facts and you’re just pi$$ed because he’s busting up the croney farm in the white house.

Kill the health care bill! Get rid of crazy Cass! Get rid of creepy Holdren! Get rid of pedophile-protector Kevin Jennings! You will be and are judged by the company you keep, and it’s making all you left-loons crazy that all your hero’s dirt is creeping out of the woodwork. And so when you can’t argue your point with any reason or intelligence, you make up a stories or just out-right lie to keep your agenda moving forward. It’s much more pathetic than you realize.

I kind of like that some of those third world dictators who preside over rape camps and are starving their populous to death didn’t like Bush. But, apparently they don’t think much of Obama as they are lying to his face every time he meets with them. He has spent more time with those creeps than he has spent talking to his hand-picked General on the Afghanistan situation. What a rookie. I would much prefer to have a president who is not whining every five minutes about his bruised ego than this schmuck who cares more about HIS image than that of his country. Did he expect, after dissing the US for months, to be taken as our proud leader and advocate in chief? And besides I thought all our problems with stimulating the economy were over. Why do we need the Olympics? Oh yeah, all his dirty Chicago machine friends had already been promised the work for new roads and facilities to his union thug friends over there. Now he will have to face the fact that he let them down because his magic wand doesn’t work as well as he promised. Snort…

And remember: When you live by the ego, you die by the ego! Words you should heed.

Hi Sterling: So apparently the best selling, most watched and most listened to tv and radio personalities are not telling the truth and the American people just enjoy them because of all the lies they tell? Hmmmm. Now that makes sense…LOL

I see Obama is having a viewing for the public of his dead health plan with some docs who supported his election to try to breathe life back into the dead plan? I wonder if they will use injections or the paddles?

If Obama treats the rest of us the way he is treating our soldiers by not being able to come up with a plan, we are all in deep do-do.

True Carolynro – I’d much rather have a president who is good at ducking shoes! LMAO!

Oh sure Sterling – I’m pizzed because Beck is the laughing stock of this nation – it’s just disgusting that we’ve sunk so low. Everyone is embarrassed by him – especially the Republicans, although no one but Lindsay Graham will admit it – yet!

Yes Dog – he’s a bestseller! I’m going to have to buy one of his books just to see if it makes any sense – because I sure can’t make any sense out of his show – and neither can MOST people. I guess you have to be on his level – and it’s way too low for me. Who is his ghostwriter – a staffer at FOX? Or maybe it’s Murdoch himself!

Hey Carolynro – he admitted on the “View” that he doesn’t check his facts. Do I have to find that for you again?

He’s NOT an investigative reporter and he’s NOT a reporter – so WHAT is he????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn7BQMh-jjk

He’s a looney tune!

Who cares what beltway staples of either party think?

What do you think Dog? Are you Independent – or Communist?

Watch Whoopi rip Beck apart! Does anyone believe that he got a call from the president? I don’t! He’s a bold-face liar!

Hi Everyone,

I’m going to respond to Saturday’s question about Janeane Garofalo. First, who cares what she thinks? If FOX responded as they ought, they should never air her stupid comments. She is just another Hollywood idiot who thinks because she can act (sort of) that she has an intellect that distinguishes her from any other airhead. These Hollywood types are all alike. Basically, they are people who find themselves rich and famous for doing, basically, NOTHING that really makes a difference. So they go on a guilt trip and attempt using their fame to push their “thoughts”. I put the word, “thoughts” in quotes because the term refers to something resulting from THINKING which not many of them really do. This is evidenced by Michael Moore’s movie which slams capitalism, although its maker (Moore) makes big money through ticket sales. Furthermore, he probably invests his personal MILLIONS in the stock market which, after all, is a capitalist creation. He advertised his movie which is a capitalist practice. Finally, he hasn’t shared a nickel of his fortune with the rest of us who are far more unfortunate financially than he . This, of course, is very unsocialistic of him. Don’t you think people like Garofalo and Moore are the most pathetic hypocrites on the face of this earth?

Elizabeth is the conservative on the show and she backed away from Beck!

Roy, no Moore doesn’t put a penny in the stock market! He won’t until they fix it. Capitalism under Bush did not work because it was so deregulated that the crooks came in and cleaned up. It’s got to be fixed so brokers and big buyers can’t manipulate it like they did during the Bush years. That makes it an even playing field for investors like you and me. The market needs “watchdogs” who do their jobs.

Don’t get me wrong, I love capitalism! It CAN work, but it needs regulation and transparency, which it didn’t have under the last administration.

I would post a link to this article but it has the word “h-a-t-e” in it, and wordpress doesn’t like that word. Space it out if you use it like I did. Here’s his answer about being a capitalist….

But aren’t you really a model capitalist? You raise money. You hire people. You create a product and sell it to the public, bearing the risk and gaining the rewards that goes along with it.

Capitalism would have never let me be a filmmaker, living in Flint, Michigan with a high school education. I was going to have to make that happen myself. My last movie, I gave it away for free on the Internet: Slacker Uprising. If I were a capitalist I would not give my employees health insurance with no deductible, which I do, including dental, and paid pregnancy leave. That’s not called capitalism, that’s called being a Christian and someone who believes in democracy, so that everyone should get a fair slice of the pie.

Hello Again,

I just had an afterthought. Do you know that Michael Moore was a college dropout who was fired from a liberal magazine editorship because “he wasn’t very well educated”? In other words, he didn’t know what he was talking about. This is a guy who wants us to follow his lead in politics, health care, economics, you name it! They say you can’t judge a book by its cover; but in Moore’s case, you CAN! He really IS as goofy as he looks (wearing his baseball hat sideways on his head, his shirt hanging out, etc.). Doesn’t his very appearance leave you with an impression of someone who is undisciplined, rebellious, and stupid? And yet MILLIONS of people spend their money on his movies? Oh my goodness! What does this say about THEIR intelligence?

Quote of the day from Jon Stewart:

“Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservative.”

Sure Roy, but not nearly as sick to my stomach as when I look at Rush Limbaugh! Puke!

I don’t think Moore is nearly as stupid as Beck, Hannity and Limbaugh! Actually, Moore is pretty bright for a HS graduate. He’s right about a lot of things, but you’re right – I do think he’s “off” on a few things for sure! I tend to judge everyone individually though, so I try to be fair.

Beck, Hannity and Limbaugh skewer everything they say – and none of them are open-minded. That’s why they yell over anyone who tries to dispute their views. You can see Beck trying to shout down Whoopi in that View video that I posted. That’s just the way they are – and the way they are taught to handle opinions that don’t jive with theirs.

I was listening to Glenn on the morning in question. He did NOT say that they had approached him. The only reason he apologized is because they caught him off gaurd in a cowardly atttack like the left always does and he couldn’t immediately recall exactly what he had said. They set up an ambush in a deceitful way to try and discredit him like the slime that they are. Stu set the record straight on the air the very next day. Glenn didn’t lie about anything. Whoopi and Babs are the LIARS!!!

It scares you guys to death that these people who have opposing views are so popular. It’s comical to watch you spew your venon about Beck, Rush, Palin, any of them who are not afraid to stand on their principals, but laud Moore, Garafola, and the others who spew the same venom as you.

Capitalism made Moore. Only under a capitalistic society could he make films that so blatantly protest his government, without fear of reprisal, and allow him to add so much money to his uneducated pocket. And he knows it, which makes him not only a hypocrite, but a manipulated hypocrite.

In any socialist, facsist, communistic society, he’d be dead, in prison, and/or broke.

That should have read manipulative hypocrite. Apoligies for the typo.

Again, I ask…why are these people so much more popular than the liberal hosts? Because most Americans are conservative.

Moore’s new movie did not do so well at the box office as his other films. Could be he should have not charged for a film in which he rips making money.

A bit hormonal today, Liz?

And how would you know who is the smarter of anyone? he he he

Quote of the day from Yours Truly!

“Leftist fringers like the troll are not stupid.
One would first need to have something between their ears before they can refuse to use it.”

Do you think I could get that one on Comedy Central?

To those who are interested, take these 3 quizzes and give answers based on the troll’s stated opinions and positions that she’s posted on this blog.

Don’t exaggerate anything!

There’s no need to!

Just use her exact words when answering.

http://conservathink.ning.com/forum/topics/what-are-you

You’ll easily find that she’s anything but a “centrist” or a “moderate” or “mainstream” but rather a far left authoritarian aka a FASCIST!

Trying to prove that the most popular television and radio commentators are out of the mainstream of thought is a fool’s errand. Oh, I guess I hit the nail on the head….

Liz,

What makes Moore so much more pathetic than, say, Hannity, is the fact that Hannity does not pretend to preach conservatism and PRACTICE liberalism. If old style, Marxist-Leninist communist philosophy were put into practice in America, Moore would possibly be executed. That is how utterly STUPID he is. He is expounding the evils of capitalism, the very institution that has been his bread and butter. How dumb is someone who cuts his own nose off to spite his face. The ditziness of Hollywood is ASTONISHING to me!
Now, with regard to Limbaugh. I’m not talking about sex-appeal. I’m am well aware of the fact that Limbaugh is no Brad Pitt. Neither am I. I’m talking about having an abjectly STUPID appearance–a look that conveys a message that says, “I’M STUPID. I HAVE NO SELF DISCIPLINE. I’M A MALADJUST.” That’s what I’m talking about.

And what happens when the most popular and informed commentators are proven correct? Will you stop bothering everyone with your pathetic attempts to discourage us from our beliefs?

Just to set the record straight, Rupert Murdoch is a DEMOCRAT!

Amen Roy! You too, Dog!!

http://talkstreamlive.com/listen.aspx?s=4002

LOL, Dog, that fact always seems to escape their notice, doesn’t it? For all the dogging that they do on Fox News, and Mr. Murdock, they can’t comprehend that the the whole outfit is run by a Democrat. They can’t wrap their little minds around the fact that there are still Democrats who want to be fair and balanced!!!

Sterling, I’d just love to get some feedback on the quizzes.

who is liz? what is her problem? does she read at all? so much wrong information where does she get her facts? from Nancy Pelosi or Barney Frank? a real nut case I think! most people are thoughtful and intelligent in here….but this girl(?) is weird

does liz have a high school education? it would not seem that she does how could anyone not know more than that? i think she is just trying to give you people a hard time

whoever called her lizard got it right

Thanks again for having me on with regards to this debate this is the single most important domestice issue facing our country in the last 100 years, It has all ready bankrupt GM and Chrysler, had a detrimental impact on the airline industry and is in the process of bankrupting many municipal, city, and county governments.

That said the debate inside the beltway is about Public vs Private. Not about solutions to the problems both parties are as guilty as the other. Democrats want the expansion of Government and Republicans are not offering any ideas in hopes of regaining their majorities in the midterms. What we disscussed is only a small portion of an overall solution other ideas that will help spolve the problem are…

-Eliminating the Dividend Capital Gains and Corporate Tax,
-Tax Free Bonds that operate the same way as muni bonds
-Tort reform
-Medial Records online
-Expedite the FDA approval process for both drug and medical devices Research and time to market drive up cost
-ability to compete across state lines

An open forum of business owners, in and roundtable format on your network could add to the debate. Not only that, it is the industry least affected by the economic downtrun and if used properly due to the shortage of employees could add jobs at the most critical time. We are missing a huge oppurtunity to create jobs in the down economy by making a few simple changes to the current system that we have in place

I am down with that, Brad!!! Great suggestion….get some real people on talking about what makes their business and their world turn instead of all the talking heads.

DogOnCrack

Regarding your 12:38 pm post: “Just to set the record straight, Rupert Murdoch is a DEMOCRAT!”, please state your source. I’ve read nothing to support your statement.

Don’t bother Kevin – they can’t support anything they say! Welcome Brad! Please post more often, as you can see the level of intellect on this board – quite pitiful. Thanks for your thoughts.

Roy, I think Hannity practices “stupidism”!

Here’s some info. on Rupert Murdoch – hardly a Democrat! LMAO! Nice try though Dog! He’s one of the “big boys” who run the country.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2004/07/b122948.html

Lizzie you are the poster child for Stupidity!!!!

I think we can just call Murdoch a “corporate communist”. Dylan Ratigan coined that term and it’s perfect for today’s “conservatives”!

Rupert Murdoch is a Libertarian….

Prove to me that you are not the poster child for stupidity Merle! LOL

Sure, he wants lots of liberty to make lots of money – and lots of “pee on” followers!

Lizzie, Read what people say about you here……99% think you are a pathetic excuse for a normal person…..We can all disagree on issues … and we have all been respectful to each other …. until you crawled out from under your rock….. and started calling everyone names….

Guess you crawled back under your rock ………………… LOLOL

Merle,

Don’t you love it when the person who sites comedy central as a news source claims no one, who mostly post links, don’t back up THEIR opinions?

you really do have to pity someone who has to make up a life like that and has no ideas of their own, save what is heard on comedy central and huffington post.

Best you save your typing for people who actually have been around longer than my 2 suits.

chas2

Samantha,

A college-educated individual can tell Liz is educated and does her research. A college-educated individual can also tell when one is not educated.

Is there anything you wish to confess Miss?

North Korea’s leader is offering to return to multinational disarmament talks in a renewed effort to draw Washington into one-on-one talks that the United States has yet to fully embrace.

Kim Jong Il’s offer, reported Tuesday by North Korean state media, reflects Pyongyang’s desire for direct engagement with Washington. The administration of President Barack Obama has said that might be possible but any talks should be part of the six-nation process aimed at ending the North’s nuclear programs.

Kim told Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao on Monday that the North “is willing to attend multilateral talks, including the six-party talks, depending on the progress in its talks with the United States,” China’s Xinhua News Agency reported.

So Kevin, with all due respect, sir, do college-educated individuals routinely engage in smears, slander, and insults, and do they normally try to tear apart an opposing opinion rather than back up their own with proof of their research, as is the normal behavior with Liz? I realize that your opinions may differ from others’ here, but I’ve never witnessed you engaging in that kind of behavior. Do you condone such behavior, because one is college educated?

Again, I ask…why does she come here if she is so disgusted by us? Kevin: have you not found anyone else here beside her who does research? Or has more intelligence born of self education that she could ever achieve? Liz uses social blogs to support her opinions, which is ok, but she should not present blogger opinions as fact. Why is her college degree revered by you, but mine is not? I try to use sources from legitimate polsters or journalists or the Congressional Budget Office AND my decades of experience in private business and my service as an elected official and decades of being a parent.

I would not mind the banter so much if this girl would stop trying to substitute her opinion for fact. You should also know the difference. Why is she so derisive toward a person who can tear apart and put back together a jet engine? Or someone who has decided to pay for their own health insurance is considered a pariah? Or people who have raised families with the work of their own hands are considered inferior because they were unable or did not chose to go to college?

No one else here has been called names by anyone else except her. If you consider her abusive language the hallmark of an college-educated person you must have a very low standard. She hides behind her university audit and considers her attendance to be the only credential she needs to feel superior. But, most people know that this will not cut it in the real world.

I think Liz and Kevin are the same person. That’s why Kevin reveres her. The only help she gets on this blog is her alter ego. Everyone else thinks she’s out to lunch.

Obama needs to take responsibility and stop blaming President Bush for all the problems that Democrats created that got us in this mess in the first place.

Liz,

I think it was you who earlier quoted John Stewart Mill and his remarks that “…most stupid people are conservative.” First, I would remind you that this guy lived a long time ago. He died in the 1800’s. Conservativism and liberalism have changed a lot since he lived. I applaud the efforts of SOME liberals from yesteryear. However, I would also point out that Mills’ belief that anyone who calls for restraint is stupid is typical of liberal thought; and that is the problem. They really believe that the populace is primarily made up of two kinds of people: (1) educated conservatives who are simply stupid and (2) the uneducated masses which are too ignorant to take care of themselves. This belief was championed by one of our founding fathers (Alexander Hamilton) who said that the government should be only the most educated scholars. His ideas didn’t carry, of course. The other group who believed this nonsense was the communist party. They believed that until world society evolves to a state of readiness that could tolerate a “dictatorship of the proletariat”, THEY (the communist party) would have to shepherd us all. They would have to take care of every human need until that glorious day arrived when everyone would share the world and live happily ever after. I must say that I do not believe we are being taken over by communists. What I AM saying is that just because a power hungry snob says conservatives are stupid, it isn’t necessarily so.

The Combination of these programs,
Cap & Trade…stimulus…Healthcare…will bankrupt our country,
Americans need JOBS…….not a JOB killing Agenda……Speak up America.

Salvatore… has got it… we need jobs in this country and we need them created now. The Health Care Industry is 20% of our economy and could be a huge engine of job growth. yet the focus is not on that…

Good morning…Kevin, thank you for your well wishes. That was so sweet. My puter was giving me fits on Sunday, and my comments to you would not post! ha! lol Oh well..poor ol’ thang prob needs to be replaced with a newer addition? or a pro needs to come and see what on earth I have done {or one of the kiddo’s} to make it so contrary! lol
Hi Merle…if you are still hangin’. I also tried to comment to you on Sunday, but it never posted, at least not b/4 I left the room. Thanks to you also…and I also thought dad would be around a bit longer than your mom, as she is so much more fragile. ONE event, and it cascades tho, sometimes, and they are gone in a blink. lol
I am off to get a few things done, so everyone be well, and don’t let Liz ruffle your feathers too much. Lots to learn, and plenty of time to learn it. We will try to protect the youth fr their trusting view points, as best we can, as did our parents b/4 us, hum? Yep…for sure. After all, we were all 20 or so and a bit naive, right? Being a military brat, and living all over the country and the world, my naivety wasn’t too extreme, and I did think mom and dad were very smart, so missed some of the really bad beliefs thrown around. Nothin’ new here folks…same ol’ song and dance that’s been spouted for all time. Another fight to the finish line, and we will win…yep! Of that I am positive! lol

Is it just now dawning on these morons in DC that we care more about jobs than we do about heatlh care (which most of us like what we have)????

Yes I think Kevin and Liz are the same person, too. He knows too much about her after only checking in here few times. Unless, of course, he has read back in which case his remarks are surreal about her.

MANY KUDOS TO STERLING AND CAROLYNRO ON COMMENTS OCT 5,2009 10:28 and 10:29 and thanks for doing all the work for me-as you pretty much summed up all my thoughts and chroncolized all thats going wrong and is wrong.
I would like to add OWONDERFUL ONE says alot and goes nowhere-He is the one that starts things like AFGANISTAN.picking the right commander then ingnoring him-going to Copenhagen for CHICAGO-then having MCchrsytal meet him aboard his plane for 25 min. As he delays and delays our soldiers are dying for lack of backup,morally and litterally-STIMULUS SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS,BAILOUTS,HEALTH CARE ETC-
He went around apologizing for America-stating we must talk with Iran and North Korea-Achmadinajad-laughs and sneers at him-We had the perfect opportunity to help the Iranian people that are fighting against him-with tough sanctions and did nothing-Now today N.korea wants to sit down with OWONDERFUL and he is THINKING ABOUT IT???- He talks the talk-he may try to walk the walk-however there is only one walk-straight to Pelosi land and all her minions-Ron emmanuel etc.

Well…darn it anyway! lol Oh well and so it goes. Didn’t copy and paste and off it went to cyber space! ha! I don’t think Kev and Liz are the same person. He has never been mean, even if I don’t always agree…I have had some very fun and interesting conversations with him. lol
Bajette…yes, Carolyn and Sterling are rather wonderful. So many on this blog are so very smart and informed. Really makes Aly’s blog a nice place to be, hum?

Well…it’s not going to let me play today, so I bid everyone adieu. Have a great day Bajette. I agree with you…I do have someone coming next Tues to look at this puter, and see what’s up with it being so slow. Might be I need a new system, in which case, I am sure she will tell me. I can’t imagine I should….after all, am just playing, not working on this thang. lol ha! lol bye…I’ll chk back later………submit comment>>>>>>> {my most brilliant were, of course, lost!!!!!! }

Tort Reform, first…and NEVER start a fight you don’t intend to win…that’s my view point. lol grrrrrrrrrrrrrr cause they know, and should stop the fighting and get to the business of running this country, the ol’ fools! lol grrrrrrrrrrr

Just in: Obama’s health plan will cut Medicare payments for tumor reduction therapies for seniors by 44%, MRI’s ’s by 25%, cardiac stress tests by @24%.

Doctor medicare reimbursement payments which are $.83 on the dollar now, will be reduced to $.78 on the dollar.

Kevin, I’m glad you asked!

My source is none other than FNC itself!

It’s been noted on numerous occasions by several different people that RUPERT MURDOCH IS A REGISTERED DEMOCRAT!

I certainly hope that you’re not stupid enough to think that so many of his employees could blatantly lie about him on worldwide TV and get away with it.

Then again, you’re stupid enough to defend our resident lowlife fascist slime so one must wonder.

I don’t understand how anyone could mistake Liz’s posts for those of a college student…oh wait a minute, yes I can….those who think she sounds intelligent must also get their news from Jon Stewart. I found a college kid on another blog the other day who states emphatically that 73% of all Americans believe our government performed the 9/11 attacks and that the “government” stole the 2000 and 2004 elections. He must be taking Liz’s class at U of Michigan!

Kevin, you’re also stupid enough to publicly advertise the fact that you’re a shameless hypocrite who lacks the courage of your supposed convictions.

===================================

Comment by Kevin September 24th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

Crack,

I’m sure the IP address will tell you otherwise, but hey, Crack, whenever you’re down off your high.

=====================================

Comment by Kevin September 23rd, 2009 at 3:25 am

When one cannot intelligently debate another on the issues, one regresses to grade-school name-calling and humor.

Murdoch is an Australian LOL!!! He supported Hillary Clinton in 08, too.

The last thing we need is more government spending on steroids!!!

Kevin…..education and intelligence are two different things…..do you have a Webster’s ?

“Liberal” is still the worst and remains the only political description that is viewed more negatively than positively. Being like Reagan is still the most positive thing you can say about a candidate.
Just 15% of voters say they view the description of a candidate as politically liberal as positive, down four points from last November. Forty-one percent (41%) see it as a negative description, up five points form the earlier survey, while 42% say it’s somewhere in between.”

Rasmussen Reports September 11, 2009

The left has turned the words liberal and progressive into dirty words so they now make the erroneous claim that they’re moderates in a pathetic attempt at fooling you and making you feel like you’re not normal. They simply can’t stand the fact that they are the minority so they use any means they can of trying to deny it.

That’s why they make up lies and excuses for why FNC crushes all of it’s competition combined and why conservative authors dominate the bestseller lists while leftists are lucky if they can sell half a dozen books. (BTW, Glenn currently has both the bestselling hardcover and paperback.) Most ludicrous of all, it’s why the troll continues to insist that everyone here is the same person.

FNC gets watched because they are “SENSATIONAL” and educated people are just curious about the stupidity being spewed across the airwaves! Sarah’s book is selling well because conservative groups have bought it huge to distribute! What don’t you get? LMAO!

Merle, you are not mentioning that 99% of the people here are NOT normal. Normal means “mainstream” and there’s nothing about this blog that is normal. Welcome to the FRINGE! These are conspiracy theorists. They wouldn’t know “educated” if it bit them in the butt! LMAO!

Kevin, it’s nice to have a comrade here! Stick around! I’m still drawing conclusions about the thinking of my “FRINGE” subjects! They cannot be educated for sure, but there might be smart lurkers out there somewhere.

OBAMA-I PLEDGE,I PLEDGE,IPLEDGE- my interpretation-BLAH,BLAH,BLAH-He almost made me believe his speech to protect us from all Al Queda-does that include meeting with MCchrystal -does that mean stopping Eric Holder from throwing the CIA under the Terrorist BUS.??????

The troll just made my point for me.

LOLOL Dog she/it sure did

If 99% of the people here are NOT normal (according to Lizzie) and she thinks she is normal…..then I’m glad I’m in the NOT Normal group!!!!!

Our Democratic controlled congress has FLOPPED for the past Nine months-why would we give the AFGHANISTAN to PROCESS-????? McChrstal spoke up out of FRUSTRATION -and they are using that as a smoke screen and delay tactics against McChrstal- OBAMA APPOINTED MCCHRYSTAL-WHO IS BEING TOTALLY IGNORED. OUR REMAINING TROOPS ARE IN JEOPARDY WHILE THEY ‘PONDER’ -
Either IN OR OUT -NOW-SUPPORT OUR TROOPS OR BRING THEM HOME.-Question-Does OBAMA appease his Leftitist cronies and fail in Afghanistan or support Mcchrstal and our troops they way he said he would.????

Liz…you still don’t get it do you? LOL You are the fringe “subject” here! Why do you think we continue to provoke you? We just love to laugh at how ridiculous you can be. You have been a great source of material for something that is coming soon. Please keep it up…..we needs some finishing remarks!

And I personally think Beck will love it! Hoot! Hoot!

Oh, how I love this!

http://twurl.nl/bzcz0y

from Webster’s

Main Entry: ed·u·ca·tion
Pronunciation: \ˌe-jə-ˈkā-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 1531
1 a : the action or process of educating or of being educated; also : a stage of such a process b : the knowledge and development resulting from an educational process
2 : the field of study that deals mainly with methods of teaching and learning in schools

— ed·u·ca·tion·al·ly \-ē\ adverb

The Boudica of talk radio!

http://talkstreamlive.com/listen.aspx?s=4002

Webster’s

: in·tel·li·gence
Pronunciation: \in-ˈte-lə-jən(t)s\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin intelligentia, from intelligent-, intelligens intelligent
Date: 14th century
1 a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one’s environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests) b Christian Science : the basic eternal quality of divine Mind c : mental acuteness : shrewdness
2 a : an intelligent entity; especially : angel b : intelligent minds or mind
3 : the act of understanding : comprehension
4 a : information, news b : information concerning an enemy or possible enemy or an area; also : an agency engaged in obtaining such information
5 : the ability to perform computer functions

Learn more about “intelligence” with Google Search:

the Webster’s definitions were provided for the Liz/Kevin personality

We are all arguing back and forth. The 2010 elections will tell who wins this debate. I’m not worried.

How sad-No one of this blog to comment on the important things going on today-Gini,Carolynro-Sterling-Sal,Caver-where are you? Jimmy-Dog and Lizzie are too busy chasing one anothers tail.

More comments without proof. How does anyone know why “everyone” watches FNC? What does the word “normal” mean and who defines it? A high school kid using these forms of generalization as fact would have their term papers red-lined and sent back for required footnotes. These comments are not provable but are just opinion. Let me know what class you teach so I can recommend that no one who cares about the content of the class being accurate not take the class. You are thinking and formulating thesis on a junior high level. There is no such thing as “everyone” or “normal” when trying to show analytical thought. D- minus work, at best.

Show statistics to proove who watches Fox and why instead of just repeating talking points from the lunchroom.

Bajette, you are sadly mistaken.

Yes, the election will be very telling, for sure. Has anyone seen the latest scoring of the Baucus Bill by the CBO? I thought the numbers would be released this pm

Carolyn, the troll is just parroting Ogremann and the rest of PMSDNC like she always does.

From the Heritage Foundation:
October 6, 2009
How the Baucus Health Bill Will Harm State Budgets

Just hours after the Senate Finance Committee completed its mark-up of its version of health care reform, Committee staff released a statement that announced, “[i]n a letter sent to Congressional leaders yesterday, Democratic governors affirmed their shared commitment to expanding health care coverage to millions of low-income Americans through the Medicaid program.”

Heritage Foundation continued:

Worried Governors:
The press release, however, overstates the case. The governors’ letter does not even mention Medicaid. The very general sentiments expressed in the governors letter such as “… the status quo is no longer an option …” and “[s]kyrocketing health care costs hurt families …” are broadly if not universally shared. Democratic governors from 21 states signed the letter, of which 8 will be out of office before the Medicaid expansion even begins. One Democratic governor who did not sign the letter, Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen warns, “I can’t think of a worse time for this bill to be coming. I’d love to see it happen. But nobody’s going to put their state into bankruptcy or their education system in the tank for it.”

continued:

Tying State Hands:

The letter was also produced before the Committee completed its amendment process and before a final score by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). A number of amendments will reduce state flexibility in the management of Medicaid. States lost flexibility in designing their benchmark plans. States will be required to extend “spousal impoverishment” rules which apply when one spouse is in a nursing home to community settings as well which will substantially shift costs from private pay to Medicaid. States will be faced with a new, broader definition of medical assistance, the implications of which will be determined through regulation and litigation. Finance is turning SCHIP into Medicaid. CBO has not yet calculated how much it will cost the states in administrative changes that will be required to comply with the new federal mandates.

continued:

Higher State Costs:
Medicaid programs will be forced to absorb open-ended costs in the foster care system. In adopting the Stabenow Amendment on therapeutic foster care, the Committee is now on record to overturn litigation won by the state of California to limit Medicaid’s role in funding the child welfare system. California prevailed in part because there is no agreed upon definition of therapeutic foster care and that while it is required to provide services, it is not required to “bundle” those services as a package. The Federal Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit determined that states still have administrative discretion in how to run their Medicaid programs. The Stabenow Amendment takes one more step towards taking that authority away.

The wide-open language of the Stabenow will likely cost states billions as providers will seek to tap into the Medicaid entitlement to fund the child welfare system, which is really what the California litigation was about. Of course the child welfare system must be adequately funded, just as education, child care programs, and the criminal justice system to name a few other government programs that are also trying to tap into Medicaid must be. But should these responsibilities fall to Medicaid? Finance has jurisdiction over the foster care system. But instead of facing its responsibilities in the program, it was apparently easier for Senators to push the issue back onto the states’ Medicaid program. Why have schools turned to Medicaid for funding for special needs children? Because Congress has never fulfilled the promises made under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). Medicaid has become an enabler. Washington promises more then passes the bill to the states.

For the conclusion:

http://fixhealthcarepolicy.com/research/how-the-baucus-health-bill-will-harm-state-budgets/

Dog-sadly mistaken on my comments? or sadly mistaken on you three.
Carolynro-glad to see you back-your comments on healthcare as usual, throughly researched and enligtening-
As the congress and senate are finished Oct 9,2009-(they just came back and now they are finished)?
the Health care bill will be settled one way or another-and we will give our own answer on Nov 3,2009 and continue on Nov 2010. Remember it’s not just about healthcare it’s EVERYTHING.

Thank you Bajette. I am trying to see why the health care talks were halted today. BRB

Bajette, we all have something important to contribute…but most of us are sick and tired of Liz and her random posts and random information she creates…she is a paid blogger…to destroy this site.
Most of us see what this administration is trying to do….and we try to protest against it, by providing accurate information and historical references…so people will see through the “transparency” of this admininstration.
I’m sorry if the problems here upset you…but they upset us, too. The majority of the people here are very intelligent and well informed, but every time we make a comment…we have to contend with Liz….who is a joke. How would you handle the situation?
I hope you stay here and continue t contribute, but Liz is a real problem here.

Senate Finance Delays Health Care Vote: Did Baucus Screw Wyden And Lose His Vote?
By: Jane Hamsher Tuesday October 6, 2009 7:53 am

The Senate Finance Committee vote won’t happen today. It has been pushed back until later this week or even next week, ostensibly so the CBO can come up with a final score. But it may have more to do with the fact that they don’t have the votes. Jay Rockefeller made an impassioned speech last week about the time he spent with VISTA and indicated he’s probably a “no” vote on the Baucus bill, despite arm twisting from the White House. (It will make you tear up if you haven’t seen it.) And now it looks like Ron Wyden might be in that column too. Since Baucus can only lose one Democrat and still get something through a committee with 13 Democrats and 10 Republicans, he has to bring one of them back on the reservation.

I got a tip last week shortly after Wyden’s midnight outburst, when he was told that the CBO messed up and didn’t score his amendment and therefore there would be no vote. I called around and was able to substantiate most (but not all) of it with other sources — but offer it up here in its entirety FWIW:

“I’ve just spoken to several high up staffers I know on the Hill who work in the Senate. One works for a top Democrat on the Finance Committee/Wyden. Get this: the person sat through the process until 1 am and gave some really wild details. Wyden was promised a vote on his amendment to keep him from slamming the bill too much during the process. At the last second Baucus said “no way” because the CBO didn’t have a cost estimate. Well things went ballistic. Wyden slammed the bill as a joke. Wyden is a “no” vote on the bill and will be on MSNBC about what a crock it is for having a closed off public option. After Baucus screwed Wyden some Senate staffers, furious with this whole ordeal and watching liberals on the committee get slapped, went into the parking lot and tore off their Obama bumper stickers as Nancy Anne DeParle went rushing after some! Holy cow, my friend said the mood is as intense as ever seen between the White House and Senators. They said something is going to give here.”

Bajette, the only things that Jimmy and I chase are truth, liberty and justice.

I can say the same for most others here as well.

Other sources confirmed that Wyden was pissed, the CBO snafu was suspicious, and he did subsequently appear on MSNBC slamming the bill. I also confirmed with other Hill sources that Baucus did something similar to another Senator on the committee — promised them “something” in exchange for keeping their criticism of the bill to a minimum, and then at the last minute the “something” didn’t appear. So the notion that there’s a huge problem on the liberal end of the committee right now that prevents the bill from passing is not far fetched.

Baucus has always has the attitude that he was the official stenographer for the White House deals (and he was). If anyone had a problem with that, they could go argue with the White House. But it appears that liberals in the House aren’t the only ones upset about the high-handed treatment they have received.

Last week Baucus was in such a rush to get the bill passed that they couldn’t score Wyden’s amendment and vote on it later. Too bad for you, Ron. Now? Well, it appears they are once again operating at a leisurely pace. Looks like the “liberals” in yet another chamber are having a hard time swallowing Rahm’s bitter pill.

From the FDL Action.

So, as we can all see that blaming the republicans is not the truth nor is it working. They are fighting amongst themselves.

True dat, Dog!

http://www.hulu.com/watch/95664/red-eye-sat-sep-12-2009

And what happens with the revelation that there may be a move on the part of the Europeans to get rid of the dollar? Looks like everyone is sure Obama is a socialist and they will get away with it OR they see he is weak and they will get away with it. Here comes inflation. Australia raised it’s interest rates 3 percentage points today. Scary.

Bajette: Liz is a shill. Jimmy and Dog are extremely well informed men and are just tired, as I am, of the bilge put on here everyday by her. She never backs anything up but feels free to discredit the rest of us for the opinions we hold and for the facts we gather. I have indulged in back and forth which was not productive but I am trying now just to stick with sharing things I can attribute to actual journalists or think tanks.

Bajette,
I have been on this site for two years now, and it has always been a wonderful place for like minded conservatives to discuss their views and opinions.
Liz showed up about five months ago, and has tried to create havoc in here. But we will not allow that, nor will we allow her to try and get this blog shut down. It’s all that simple.
She never has any credible sources, correct facts, or correct poll numbers. She just makes up everything she posts. She is a joke, so we treat her that way. It’s that simple.
But I do hope you will continue to hang around in here becuase we need your insights and contributions as well.

Another bit of news before I go ….During Obama’s last address to the nation on health care reform in prime time CNN released a snap poll and excitedly reported that the speech was changing the minds of Americans about his plans. Unfortunately, it was discovered that the poll was 45% democrats and 18% republicans. That is how they do it, folks!

I am afraid there are some EDUCATED people that blog here that are in for a rude awakening when they get out into the REAL world and get a REAL job!!!

That is true…I have spoken of my father in law the dean of at a major university who became a conservative after he retired! We were all shocked and I think he was, too! LOL

OKAY-Dog and Jimmy-Thanks for the explanation-and comments of substance-which I have seen you have many times-and then get lost on Lizze-which you need a Lizzie for comic relief-too bad you really can’t debate opposite opinions honestly with her-for I noticed when a comment other than Health care arises-she never appears-Nothing on all the major topics of the day.
Carolynro-thank you too.

Tried to post several times today, keep getting blocked. Guess that’s the plan, heh? Rock on, good people, and stay vigilant.

Bajette is just a figment of Sterling’s imagination Jimmy! And I’ll hang around as long as I want absent-minded professor!

Sterling has a “huge” family – in her/his head!

Well, I’m glad to see Pelosi rounding up women to get behind the public option. Recent polls have shown that more than 70% of women are for it. The constituents of the bluedogs are also mostly in favor of the public option, but they don’t want to represent their constituency. That’s why their days are numbered.

Have a nice evening fringers!

It’s hard to believe that a Democrat would run a conservative TV network! I’ll have to do more research on that guy!

Not all democrats are demagogues. Some actually believe in fairness and balance in the media.

Well, so far it looks to me like he supported Hillary because he thought McCain could beat her! And he might have been right about that!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/09/politics/main1600694.shtml

Well, there doesn’t seem to be much fairness in the world of FOX, and you know it! They are way off on tangents and so far removed from “news” in the mainstream, it’s ridiculous. They “make” their own news!

From the Hufpo:

A New York Times/CBS poll found that 65% of respondents want a public health care option, while only 26% opposed such a plan.

However, respondents said that President Obama had not been clear on health care reform. Fifty-five percent said he had not explained his plan clearly, and many felt under-informed about the policies under discussion.

The Senate Finance Committee will vote on a government-run health insurance option Tuesday.

“We’re going to have a full blown debate in the Finance Committee,” said Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), a backer of the public option. While it may be an “underdog,” Schumer said, “don’t count it out.”

Actually, I’m forgetting that Fox bills themselves as an “entertainment” network – just like Glenn Beck always says.

“However, respondents said that President Obama had not been clear on health care reform. Fifty-five percent said he had not explained his plan clearly, and many felt under-informed about the policies under discussion ” LOL

They know they like it but they don’t understand what it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a riot.

If it’s “watered down” I think they will wait for more Republicans to get voted out in 2010…and then go for single payer.

It’s a start, and that’s what matters. It will be revised over and over until it’s perfect.

Where does Fox bill itself as an entertainment program? Show me.

hey Lizzie…… Why is FOX the #1 cable network?????

Any plan, if passed, is not to be implemented for 4 years. Plenty of time to start undoing the damage to the country by this congress.

Merle: She doesn’t know. She still thinks Bush is president!

From the Washington Post
September 30, 2009

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The Home Front on the Public Option
“The 13 senators who yesterday voted against both government-sponsored health insurance plans represent populations whose support for health reform improves significantly when the plan does not include just such an option.

Among those living in states represented by the 13* Senate Finance Committee members opposing both amendments, a majority in the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll gave a thumbs down to the health reform proposals being developed by the Congress and Obama administration. But when asked about a package that excluded a public option, the results flipped and most stood in favor of the reform effort.”

continued:

“The opposite was true among those living in states represented by the 8** members of the committee who voted for both amendments, as support in those states held steady regardless of the inclusion of a public option.

Just over half (51 percent) in states represented by a senator who opposed the two amendments said the proposals as they understood them would create too much government involvement in health care, about four in 10 (41 percent) said it would be the right amount and fewer than one in 10 (7 percent) said it was not enough government action. Among those whose senator backed both amendments, 48 percent considered it the right amount, 16 percent said it wasn’t enough government action and 34 percent felt it went too far.”

Carolyn, she dosen’t know Anything LOL

You crazy little know-nothing. Why on earth do you keep saying things like this? Are you really that crazy? Good God Almighty. I couldn’t care less how disrespectful you are to me, but why would you treat someone else like this?

Comment by Liz
October 6th, 2009 at 6:32 pm

Bajette is just a figment of Sterling’s imagination Jimmy! And I’ll hang around as long as I want absent-minded professor!

Sterling has a “huge” family – in her/his head!

Miss Gini,

I’m so very glad you appear to be your spirited self with what you have been through. You most certainly were missed. We salute the “ole” soldier.

I believe I read you are the Cookie Czar. Although I lately dip my cookies in coffee, would you work on mandating all having milk with those cookies? I don’t think it will cost a trillion dollars! (I’m giving you one there)

You have much to do. Keep busy.

Carolynro and Sterling,

You offer good debate. Thank you. We all have much to learn from each other.

Liz,

It seems to me that your definition of “tangent” is anyone who disagrees with you on any topic at all, no matter how small or meaningless. Everyone MUST agree with you and have the same set of beliefs as you, or else they are labeled a “fringer” or “extremist”. Why is that? If you are proven wrong, and that seems to be done quite easily, then you ALWAYS try to distract attention away from your own ignorance by blaming it on Bush or anything you can think of at the time. Transparent and pathetic.

Your behavior is exactly what you accuse others of! HYPOCRISY!! Again, transparent and pathetic. And yes, I already know how you’ll react to this…”Click on MetalGirl’s name and see what kind of person she is….” Blah, Blah, Blah…..You’re jealous. We get it. Move on.

Look, bottom line is this. Just stop treating people with such disrespect, and maybe you might be shown the same consideration. You always say you don’t care what we think of you here, but we all know that isn’t really true. You do. I think that’s why you act out and behave like such an unruly child. All for attention. Lastly, transparent and pathetic.

Lizzzzzzzzzy whizzzzzzzzzzzy-wow-I’ve seen where you have acused one person being several people and I have no idea how I became in the mix-but A FIGMENT,I’M A FIGMENT? WOW.
I feel as if I woke from a long sleep and nothing was real,I’M A FIGMENT. Well I’ll still keep my spouse and chilren and grandchildren-however as roll of FIGMENT,I don’t mind not feeling any aches and pains,thank you very much-and if I recall correctly-does anyone remember the Jetsons-later on in the show FIGMENT appeared,nicknamed FIGGY-was George jetsons imagination and FIGGY was Georges very WISE side of his imagination. SO lizzy -thank you-for naming me the WISE ONE.
And as I said in a earlier comment you definitly COMIC RELIEF for these very troubled times.
THANKS AGAIN.

Foreign medical teams reached further into Indonesia’s disaster zone Wednesday, treating victims of last week’s massive earthquake but also dealing with crowds wanting help for other illnesses.

Like most of Indonesia, West Sumatra had no functioning health system even before the quake and an influx of international aid has prompted all sorts of people to seek help.

Large parts of the provincial capital of Padang and villages in nearby mountains were flattened in the Sept. 30 quake or buried by landslides. The official death toll stood Wednesday at 704 but could reach into the thousands. Around 180,000 buildings—half of them homes—were severely damaged or flattened, Indonesia’s Disaster Management Agency said.

Sorry, I don’t respond to “figments”.

I always suspected that Beck suffered from ADHD, but now I’ve confirmed it. I don’t think I want to take anything seriously that this guy says. Has he been to rehab lately?

Part of Beck’s background…..

Beck met his first wife, Claire, in 1983, after relocating to Washington, D.C. in order to work at radio station WPGC. The couple married and subsequently had two daughters, Mary and Hannah; daughter Mary was born in 1988 with cerebral palsy, the result of a series of strokes at birth. The couple divorced in 1994 amid Beck’s struggles with substance abuse. Along with being a recovering alcoholic and drug addict. Beck has been diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. He cites the help of Alcoholics Anonymous in his sobriety and attended his first AA meeting in November 1994, the month he states he stopped drinking alcohol and smoking marijuana.

In 1996, while working for a New Haven-area radio station, Beck was admitted to Yale University through a special program for non-traditional students. One of his recommendations for admittance came from Senator Joe Lieberman. Beck took one theology class, “Early Christology,” and then dropped out.

Sorry MetalGirl – I should know better than to argue with someone who is so “Pervalicious”! LMAO!

Well Kevin, I’ve found that all I can really get out of these bloggers are Fox talking points. A few are capable of doing some research, but most are just “followers” of the wrong crowd. They would cut off their nose to spite their face, but then defend the “social” programs that are helping them. They’d be crying the blues if anyone attempted to mess with their social security, medicare or medicaid – and their math skills are the worst. Don’t look for experts on economics here! LOL

Have a great day

<—- wonders which 'social' program he is defending….

Good Mornin’ chas…Hows you this AM? G’ Mornin’ anybody else who is lurkimg around as well, minus the twins of course!

Morning Caver. Let me guess: You like everyone else here. partake of ALL the social programs but you denounce them all, because that just make so much sense. That’s how all these social progressives got where they are, right? Because the citizens who benefit from their social programs but who are really against them, keep voting for them. Ahh, yes, it all makes sense now.

Huh? I am sooo cunfuzzled! I didn’t think I was on any of them. I should be?

Add a Good Morning Gorgeous cuz that was what I was gonna say to ya as soon as I saw your message, Sterling! I am sorry I muffed up again.

Good morning all…that is a presumptive attitude one might think? Put the bill on line as promised, and those who are interested in reading it, will keep up with the chges made and take an opportunity to contact their rep if they have a question, since there is no opportunity to put a comment in on the site. How dumb they think we are…I am again, bowled over w/the arrogance of those who wish to keep it all secret.

Ah yes, Miss Gini, but there is a reason for their secrecy. They know their ridiculous ideas won’t float with the citizen, so they prefer to gather by cloak of moonlight rather than light of day, all in the name of taking care of us, you understand, since they know best what we need.

Caver, you always make my day!

<— blushes and thinks how happy it makes him to see his friends smile…

Good Morning Gini! Great to SEE you here this morning! You look wonderful, like a splash of sunshine gracing the horizon.

Caver, do me a favor and click on my name and leave a message on one of my posts. I have some info for you about that laser surgery we were discussing the other day.

Clear as mud Sterling…hi Caver. lol Have to go to work, and am off, but did get a good chuckle, hum? Yep…..and I am sore fr cleaning my house!!! YIKES! Lost my house cleaner ya know, when dad passed. boo hoo!!! I was delighted to find out, I had not forgotten how to clean the bathroom tho, so that’s the upside of it all…or one of them, anyway. bye bye everyone, have a good day, and don’t play with the uninformed, ok? Be nice…..lol ~~giggle~~ ) After all, anyone using DOH! as part of the conversation, prob isn’t old enough to have a mature opinion abt anything, hum? lol Yep…pretty sure I am right abt that. lol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The republicans found another 29 billion in fees in the Baucus Bill. The fees are on medical supplies/suppliers which will likely be passed on to the consumer for a total of over 120 billion in fees in the bill.

Yor wish is my command…dear Sterling.

Good Morning carolyn, Hows you this fine morning?

Exactly Sterling…need to chk over “home”, but left the puter on last nite, in error, so when I moved the crusor, Aly’s popped up. Very VERY tired, but am off to work anyway. Might as well go, cause I certainly have a lot of piled up work there as well, to get done. All of Sept, in fact, is laying in piles to be put away…YIKES! lol

Does anyone truly believe that the government is going to provide “free” health care? That’s the first problem in this ridiculous proposal. They’re not going to raise taxes one cent? Yeah right. Our government is broke, and going broker by the minute. Anyone foolish enough to believe that their health care is not going to cost them anything, or that it will reduce their out of pocket deserves the “free” health care they get. It’s the rest of us who don’t deserve it.

Caver ~~blushing~~ I’m lookin’ about how I feel right now. Five pounds lost due to anxiety, doesn’t “look” very good on an old lady, ya know. lol ~~laughing~~ However, I found a tin of cookies, so I will fix that prob right now!!!! Gotta keep that cellulite up to avoid being cold ya know….he hehheehee!!!! I really am gone now. Hi Carolyn…too true, as always. lol grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

When I see people I usually start at the heart and go from there. You look simply beautiful to me Gini.

The ‘usually’ used to be ‘always’ until I came across the imp that stalks here.

Liz where is the research that YOU use? You hammer everyone on this blog because you say they don’t know how to do research. Well where is yours? You just say things as if they are fact. Everybody knows they aren’t, but you say them as if you’ve researched them and found them out. Your research is like the money Obama is going to use in order to pay back the trillions he has run up. You just IMAGINE that it’s there and try using it.

Hi Caver. I am fine, thanks. And you?

I cannot put my health care in the hands of the same people who are bankrupting the country. Sorry. They are not qualified to make these decisions.

Good Morning Caver and Sterling!! Hope you are havin a great day so far!

OOps!! Didn’t mean to forget you Carolyn! LOL!! Obviously haven’t had enough coffee yet!!

She has no answers Bajette.

That is what happens when you adopt the beliefs of others for which one has no underlying understanding or experience behind words. Regurgitation of blog-talk is no subsitute for intuition or experience. Typical college student- repeaters of conspiracy and no real substantive life lessons that make a complete person.

Hey Metalgirl…. How are you? Girded for another day in the neighborhood?

I have to go for awhile. Must walk, you know. Got to fight the signs of aging so when Obama takes my insurance away I won’t die. LOL

I’m doing quite well this AM, for a change..lol, carolyn and thanks for your concern.

Hiya MetalGirl1, you are looking quite perky this AM…what have you been up to?

Hrry back to us, carolyn, we will miss ya!

Thanks Caver, I wish I felt perky!! UGH!! LOL!! Am getting ready to donate some time out at the Humane Society!! I get to go play with all the puppies and kitties! YAY!!

Good Morning you good people
I dont know where some people get their information,
over 60% of the American people are against this government takeover of our Healthcare.

Take me with you!

Don’t you all think that liberal Dems support the most sleazy causes? They like gay rights, abortion on demand, placating of terrorists, suppression of religious freedom (unless it is the Islamic religion. They fight hard for them). They cry a river about the poor Afghans who protected Bin Laden after 9/11. They are so heart sick about 2 crazy terrorists who were water boarded . Right now the CIA is probably scared silly to do anything they might normally do to save Americans. If we get attacked again and we lose another 3000 people (or God forbid–MORE), the lives of these innocent Americans will be on liberals’ heads. I don’t understand why Americans are not mad enough to riot in the streets. These people deceived us. That is how they got into office. Of course it wasn’t too hard. Too many Americans are gullible. It’s amazing to me that idiots like Liz keep on singing the liberals’ praises although most people know that Obama and his degenerates are flushing our way of life down the toilet.

Good Morning Sal!

Hey Sal!! I would like to say that I am part of that 60%….the administration we have has done nothing but show us repeatedly how inept and clueless they are and they want us to believe that they know what they’re doing? Yeah right, and I have some ocean front property to sell right here in South Dakota! LOL!! And besides, why would an administration of a free country try to introduce such a socialist idea as national healthcare when it has FAILED so miserably in EVERY other country where it was put in place? Oh wait….I almost forgot about Obutthead surrounding himself with Marxists and communists…..nevermind….

Gotta go!! Have a great day!!!

Good Morning Caver, MetalGirl,
I dont get it, most of the country is against this healthcare takeover,
and they are still trying to push it through,
if they push this healthcare scam through its over for this Administration and the Democrats.

To blogger-we have not hit the streets yet-although if the Health care ‘REFORM’bill passes as is-who knows.
Till then town hall-tea party express-another trip to washington-and don’t forget the BIGGIE-ELECTION DAY NOV 3,2009-all the way to nov 2010-start dumping now.

And Obama’s approval rating is UP 6 points this week – 56%. Bush’s did nothing but go down and never really held above the 30’s! Gee, I wonder why the Dems are more popular???

Sterling, are you that stupid? Nothing is free dear!

Gini, they do think you are as dumb as you are and that’s why they are trying to protect you. Sterling, for just one day why don’t you try to “be yourself”!

Corporate communism has to die!

Good Morning “Friendly Bloggers”

Good Morning Colleen.

Yep…kill of the creators. Typical liberal/socialism.

Site your proof about the popularity between Bush and Obama.

Everything I find says Bush was more popular than obama is for this time period and that Obama’s popularity it slippiing…..

October 5, 2009
Richmond Times Dispatch
“But independents also rated Obama poorly, with 38 percent saying he is doing well and 52 percent saying he is not.”

From the New York Post
October 7, 2009

“Obama’s personal approval ratings significantly outstrip support for his proposals, demonstrating that, contrary to the presumptuous claims of Jimmy Carter, it is possible to harbor positive feelings toward the president yet still have honest disagreements with his policies. We need a leader, not a prom king.”

So who cares about popularity anyway when it doesn’t mean anything to his efforts as a “leader”.

From USA Today
“Barack Obama, who completed six months in office Monday, has a 55% approval rating in the USA TODAY/Gallup Poll, putting him 10th among the dozen presidents who have served since World War II at this point in their tenures.

That’s not as bad for Obama as it may sound: The six-month mark hasn’t proved to be a particularly good indicator of how a president ultimately will fare.

Two-thirds of Americans approved of the jobs Jimmy Carter and George H.W. Bush were doing at six months, but both would lose their bids for re-election.”

October 7 Gallup Poll

“The Democrats are now barely ahead of the Republicans, 46% to 44%, in registered voters’ party preferences for next year’s congressional elections. That differs from the typical double-digit Democratic leads of the past two years. More independents now favor Republican than Democratic candidates.”

Sal, carolyn did either one of you see the front of the Drudge report? How Sad. How long will o leave our Brave men/women over there fighting without the help they need. Moment of Silence………..

Gallup Poll also has Obama’s approval rating at 50% for October 7, 2009

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

Job creation is at a -31 and consumer confidence is at 1. So who gives a crap if people like Obama? It means nothing when people don’t have jobs and are not spending money. People also liked George Bush as a person- hence the 2 terms. But, when people do not feel confident in a president, even when they like him, they tend to turn to the out of power party.

Or is that too deep for you?

You have to read inside the polls to see what they really mean. But, again that would put the Obama lovers in a position of looking past the rhetoric and into reality.

I did not see that, Colleen. I wonder how many “Cindy Sheehans” will be born of this outrageous abandonment of our soldiers and marines.

I see the MSNBC and AP is the poll that was used to site Obama’s increased poll numbers. No wonder.

CBO may release scoring of the health bill today

Let’s see if Obama breaks another promise about his demand that the bill be “deficit neutral”

Associated Press is a very respected poll – and accurate. Actually, Fox polls even seem sorta fair lately – even though more conservatives participate in them I think. I don’t think they do “random” polls at Fox.

Our troops are not being abandoned – and if you watched the “real” news you would know that. They will be shifted more into Pakistan, which is where Al Qaeda is – make sense? Of course!

I heard Obama told McCain to put a sock in it yesterday! GOBAMA!

I thought Graham had a good interview with O’Reilly yesterday, but he should have been more forceful about telling the “talking heads” to shut up. I guess he thinks Bill is OK, but he sure doesn’t like Beck’s “commentary”!

Most Americans — 78 percent — think the national debt is so large it is hurting the future of the country, including majorities of Democrats (64 percent), Republicans (92 percent) and independents (85 percent).

Moreover, nearly two-thirds (65 percent) think the Obama administration is proposing more government spending than Americans can afford. Some 29 percent disagree.

Fox news poll

The latest FOX News poll finds 79 percent of Americans say they are worried the federal government is spending too much money, while 77 percent are worried about Iran developing nuclear weapons.

In addition, most people — 77 percent — say they are worried about the increasing size of the federal deficit and 74 percent worry about “leaving the country worse off for future generations.”

Nearly 6 of 10 are troubled by the increasing concentration of power in Washington (59 percent).

Somewhat lower levels of anxiety are found when voters are asked about someone in their family losing their job in the next six months (52 percent worried) and about a terrorist attack happening in the next six months (47 percent worried).

Of the worries asked about in the poll, the lowest number is for concern about an H1N1 swine flu epidemic hitting the United States — just over 4 of 10 say they are worried about that (42 percent), while over half — 56 percent — aren’t.

Poll is for same time period that the AP/Obama MSNBC?Obama poll was taken as were all the others I posted.

FOX News Poll: Opposition to Health Care Reform Grows

Friday, October 02, 2009
By Tami Buhr

As Congress takes action on health care reform, public opinion on the issue remains divided and, at times, contradictory. The latest FOX News poll shows a decline in support for health care reform over the past two weeks.

Currently, one-third favors the legislation being considered (33 percent) and a slight majority (53 percent) opposes it. This compares to 38 percent favoring and 48 percent opposing the legislation two weeks ago (15-16 September 2009).

So you see, there is no correlation between the president’s popularity and the popularity of congress’s health plan

Oh, so you are for censorship? You should move to Cuba..you would fit in much better then. And, again, who cares what Lindsay Graham says? He was for amnesty of illegals, too. Try to keep up.

Beck should shut up but Goroffolo should be heard? So typical.

Michael Moore should be heard, despite his looney paranoid delsusions, but Beck and Hannity should be quiet?

It doesn’t work that way.

55% Oppose Penalty for Not Buying Health Insurance
Wednesday, October 07, 2009

“The health care reform plan working its way through the U.S. Senate now includes a proposal that requires young and healthy Americans to either buy health insurance or pay a $750 annual penalty for not having it.

But a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 55% of U.S. voters oppose that proposal. Just 32% of voters think young and healthy Americans should be forced to purchase health insurance or else pay a penalty. Fourteen percent (14%) are not sure.”

Who cares about Garafalo, and what does she have to do with anything? She’s insignificant!

I WILL NOT purchase health insurance and I WILL NOT pay a fine for not doing so!

Forcing free law abiding citizens to do things against their will is EVIL!!!

Are you reading this TOTUS?!?!?

YOU ARE EVIL!!!

I’ll be sure to have the camera crews waiting when you send your Gestapos to haul me off to jail!

To hell with you and your tyranny!

Graham wants the talking heads to stop spreading misinformation – that’s all! Is that asking too much? They can have opinions, but those opinions should be based on fact!!! Get it???

Looks like most of the misinformation has been cleared up……new stats look good.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091007/ap_on_bi_ge/us_ap_poll_health_care

There’s a simple solution to “penalties” and that’s “single-payer”! It would be deducted just like Soc. Sec. and Medicare from paychecks – and would stay in effect during times of unemployment. That system would be a lot easier. Don’t worry though – it will happen someday – after we END corporate communism!

Michael Moore’s opinions have a lot of basis in fact – and a little in fantasy, but mostly FACT!

Wow, Carolynro – you are pizzing off the crackdog!

Dog, you have no choice but to pay Soc. Security? How do you get around that? LOL

Dog, do you have your own personal doctor (like Michael Jackson?) and hospital? Why are you willing to risk everything for an illness or injury? Enlighten me! You are human, aren’t you?

Who is the arbitor of what is true and what is lies? If you choose to believe the politicians then you do it at your own peril.

I am simply pointing out the fact that you are a-okay with people spouting what ever they consider to be the truth, but may in fact be lies, on the leftist side but want conservatives to be silenced.

And Micheal Moore is not judge of the truth.

A simple solution?

I’ve got one that’s even more simple!

I’ll pay for it with my debit card just as I always have!

No government BS!

No insurance company BS!

Swipe, sign, DONE!

Is that simple enough for you?

The doctors seem to think it is!

There you go again, not insulting me by calling me stupid. You yourself have said that your beloved president is not going to raise anyone’s taxes one cent when he takes over health care, and you derided us for not believing him. So exactly how do you propose that it will be paid for. And please use small words, since I’m so stupid.

Socialist Security?

Well, here’s what I think of that!

http://dogoncrack.wordpress.com/2008/01/29/socialist-security/

Why don’t we ever hear about how un-educated Michael Moore is? It’s okay not to be educated if you are a far left loon? There’s that double standard again.

Michael Moore is a college dropout, a twisted theocrat, a far left nutcase, a pathological liar and one of the biggest hypocrites on Earth.

Hi Everyone,

Yes, they do champion some pretty “out of the mainstream” policies, don’t they? I really don’t know why they embrace everything that nearly everyone else rejects; and they spurn everything that everyone else embraces. To many of them (and I’m sure not all) evil is good; and good is evil. I suspect it goes back to their childhood and how they were reared; although I don’t know. Some of them were apparently reared by parental despots, so that now they reject anyone who tries to exercise a little control over anyone or anything. Others are spoiled little rich kids who think everyone wants to be spoiled as they were; so they go around giving handouts to anyone who will take it. I don’t know. I’m just speculating, but their behavior is a mystery to me. They only thing I know is that their ambitions cannot (MUST NOT) come to fruition. They are killing the many to appease the few.