Good morning Audra!!! This of course, is a difficult situation, however, it is not the right of anyone to attend a church or anything else, if disruptive or dangerous. She needs to find another venue for her child and herself. My daughter worked for the adult developmentally delayed in a group home, and brought her clients here for all the holidays and in between, to swim and join in the family festivities. They were delightful and fun and smart, but most ranged in mental age from six yrs to maybe ten? but were alllllllllll grown up physically. They would not have been able to be here if they had been “dangerous or disruptive”…not a right. She could and did control her clients and a good time was had by all.

Sad situation, but I think we need to put more emphasis on the possible direction the country is headed with the frightening thought of the false “messaih” being elected. This guy (Obama) will make Jimmy Carter look positively brilliant.

I sense Fox is on the Obama (Lemmings for Obama) bandwagon.

goodmorning Audra
Thanks for being here. There are other churches to go to and I’d rather go were I’d feel welcome myself. The lady is just looking for trouble it seems to me.

As the father of an autistic child I can understand the stress the family is under , but we also do not put our son in situations where he can act up or act out, our church has a room where if we had to could listen to the service, but we choose to have someone come to our home who is qualified to watch our child (respite care). That might be a better solution to the families problem.
Thanks
Patrick Heckman

Good morning!

I am a high school bio teacher and this year I had an autistic boy in my class. He certainly could be disruptive. The second semester he was changed to one of my morning classes and had a monitor accompany him to class and his behavior was tremendously improved. I think if the child can be taught coping skills and is closely monitored it is possible for him to behave in church.

I will also say that it will require a team effort; both the parents and parishioners will have to work together to help the child remain calm. The church does not appear to be demonstrating Christian love by preventing the child and his family from worshiping. I don’t have all the facts but in my experience a very disruptive child can be taught to control his outbursts, it just takes work on the part of the parents and lots of forbearance on the part of the church.

Sandy

Houston, Tx

It’s a tough call. Both should have the ability to attendd services. Our church has a “Crying Room”. There are big windows between it and the main part of the church. It is relatively acousticaly isolated. That’s where people with noisy children attend. It works out great. Those with the noise situation can attend services and those without can concentrate on their prayers and services.

Good Morning Audra,
why dont they just go to another church,
and its about time Alisyn comes back thursday,
Patti Ann is a knockout and shes doing a great job.
Sal

All churches I have attended have an area for babies or disruptive children to ensure services are relatively undisturbed. This church should as well.

May be more to this story than is being reported. Did the Fox team get all the facts this time (see Confederate Flag fiasco)

As the parents of an Autistic child I can sympathise with both the church and the parents, the parents want to go to church and parishoners at the church want to listen to an uninterupted service, but the are things such as respite care that can take care of their son while they go to church, the parents need to be more sympathetic towards the church, In our situation we dont put our son in situatons where he can act out or act up.

First off if one of my children were ask to leave a church I would be sure to include those church members in my payers because they are going to need it. I definately would not want to attend a church who would ask anyone to leave for such reasons. I understand the frustration of this family but if I were in thier position I would find a church that accepts all of Gods children not just the so called perfect ones.

Assumming this church is a Christian church or at least one of the God religions it seems to be in rather bad taste for a church to take this attutude. Doesn’t practice the teachings of God as concerns having a bit of compassion for your fellow man. I would think the church would be trying to help the family versus casting them out.

But when you see people like Rev Jeriamh Wright or Pastor Flegler(sp) who claim to be preachers of the word it makes you stop and ask yourself what has happened to our society when even the religious leaders are preaching against the word of God. Maybe time for a discussion with Father Jonathon Morris!

Hi Audra,

Thanks for starting a blog topic for this morning.

It will be good to have Alisyn back tomorrow morning, but I have to say Patti Ann has been doing a great job! Both are smart, classy, beautiful and charming ladies. Too bad we can’t have Alisyn and Patti Ann on every morning. Hopefully Patti Ann’s outstanding work as Alisyn’s fill in will mean she will be back the next time Alisyn takes some vacation time.

As for the autistic boy. He has no right to attend that church. If that church feels he is disruptive or a danger they do have a right to use legal means to keep him away since the mother refuses to do so.
The Church is private property and can ban anyone they wish for any reason.

It is a shame that the family and the church have been unable to reach some sort of compromise, but according to the church the family refuses to accept any alternatives to their son sitting in the congregation and that is longer acceptable or safe for the church members.

SHAME on that Church! Shame I say!!

Would Christ turn away from a leper? Would Christ turn away from the sick and weary? Not a very Christian thing to do, to turn away a Child suffering from Autisim.

Children were the joy of Christ. He would not turn away the little ones.

Jesus went among the poor, the sick, the afflicated. It seems this church doesn’t want a situation that makes them uncomfortable. I’m no expert, but what they are doing doesn’t sound very Christian to me.

Morning:

I understand both sides of this situation – it is distrubing to parishioners who are going to church for peace and pray. I know its my one time out of the busy day to day life to sit in quiet and prayer to the Lord about – whatever you may want. But, the when there is something distrupting this it isn’t fair. However, the parents and child or children have a right also to be in church. They really need to sit in the “childrens room” where is it suppose to be sound proof. I feel it is the only solution for both parties.

Also Patti Ann is doing a terrific job. I enjoy watching her.

Sure. Good Morning, Audra. I’ll begin by saying that while the church preaches love, patientce, acceptance and forgiveness, that church does not walk the walk. And this is a child. So, he is disruptive. Everyone knows you must be creative with children – especially those with disabilities. Is this what God would do? Ban him from church? This is just one more example of people not helping people as we saw last week with the 78 y.o. man hit by a car. People need to rally around those that need extra help for God knows that one day it could be your family in need. What if everyone turned their backs.

The Catholic church really needs to get it’s act together. I’m a non-Catholic and the only things I really hear about the Catholic church is what I see and hear in the news. If I were to gauge the church on restraining orders against autistic children, Father Pfleger, and pedophile priests, I would find it hard to believe that anyone would choose to attend. More has been done to keep this boy out of church than to the gay activists that disrupted service dressed as nuns in California, making a mockery of both the priest and the church…

Ridiculous, unheard of, and the church should be embarrassed!

When I was growing up I remember our Mother taking us to a small room in the back of our Church so, when we became loud and unruly, it wouldn’t disrupt the service (my sweet Mother raised three hyperactive sons). Nowadays I notice more often than not that parents are very inconsiderate to the people surrounding them. These rooms are hardly used anymore but you can spot plenty of children in the congregation and many times hear them. We couldn’t even go to restaurants until we learned to behave, our treat came when our parents returned with some sort of take-out, we loved it! I beleive the experience is important for children but let’s face it, at that age they don’t have a clue of the responsibility of participating in church service and until they are able should be sequestered until they can decide to act accordingly. As for the autistic child, the mother is probably unaware that many churches will actually come to your home to minister and I wonder if she’s explored this avenue. This would be no different than an invalid, shut-in patient. I beleive many churches would respond appropriately.

good morning audra

we sure do miss alisyn the show is kind of bland without her and we miss the posts so it is nice of you to come in here and start things off theis morning

how are you doing? and is it as much fun as you thought it would be or is it a lot more work than you thought it would be

i am sure if you continue to have alisyn as your mentor you will be bringing as much fun and sunshine into our liive as she does

we will be happy with alisyn returns tomorrow she is sorely missed

Dear Ali’s Intern…I would remind the church…”…as you have done it to the least of these, you also done it to me.” JC

Shalom Aleichem, Mark P.

good morning audra,

i am a part time poster on this blog and relatively new to the whole blog world. i do read the posts here all the time. i get a kick out of all of the different views and opinions. one thing for certain is that none of us are the same, thank god!! as far as the church in minnesota goes, they must have a reason for the restraining order. i can’t imagine them obtaining one for the heck of it. i feel sorry for children with handicaps. i dont think the world it set up for the handicapped. they don’t get the same treatment as the rest of us. my sister was handicapped and i feel as though we were looked on differently than others. thanx for letting me post, and have a gr8 day steve.

Hi Audra,
Tough situation! Some churches will have a closed circuit TV for overflow crowds. Maybe that type of arrangement would work here so the family could attend the service and not possible cause distruption for anyone. I applaud the mom for wanting her son in church, as tough as it may be for her, but at the same time it can be very distracting when in a service and movement, noise, crying, laughing, or even whispering is going on. The only ones who really know the extent of the distraction are the other parishioners in that church.

When they say they have to sit on him in church. Bind him. He runs around.

Then the health, wefare and safety for the church members needs to be priority.

Plus The churches might not be able to cover and legal problems if the child gets hurt. With the parents doing all kind of dangerous interventions to curb his behavior problem.

Plus the childs safety. The church can’t roll up the pews or the steps or anything else to prevent the kid or his parents from giving him harm. Where in the privacy of their own home they could.

I am with the church, they have rights and the people need protected.

The parents need to get help and see what other means, they can use to help the child’s behavior.
Sitting on him, binding him and other things they mentioned, in most states is child abuse. I am sure their are doctors who could help.

There are two autistic children in the church I attend. While there are some concerns with them I have observed a significant improvement in their behavior and development. Parents say that special training along with love and understanding from friends and church members have made a great difference in their progress. I think the church should try to support the parents. Those parents probably need all the support they can get.

Hi Audra,
Thanks for helping Ali. I am ambivalent about the autistic boy being banned from church. I heard comments from both sides and am unsure how I would feel if it affected me personally.

Patti Ann has done an excellent job of filling in for Ali – please congratulate her for me!

Cheryl

audra

why is nothing posting here

Before the church is condemned I think we need to have a refresher on why the church got a restraining order to begin with.
here are some articles on the story.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080519/autistic_church_080519/20080519?hub=CTVNewsAt11

http://www.startribune.com/local/19476149.html?location_refer=Local%20+%20Metro

http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/content.asp?id=57401

The boy, while 13, is 6′ tall and 225lbs. He has been a danger to the well being and health of others in the church. The church claims they have offered the family many alternatives so to allow them to come to the church but maintain the safety of the members and so the boy will not disrupt the services. Reportedly the mother will not go along with any compromise. She has violated the restraining order.
I have not seen that the family disputes that the church has made other offers. The church can’t not allow this young man to be a threat and disruption to the risk of the other members.
I must believe that this restraining order was a last ditch effort when all other means had failed.

I am surprised by the negative comments against the church.

My wife is mentally ill, and I have had to take some pretty drastic steps to protect both her and our son, even thought she (in her mind) was doing what she thought was right for the child.

It seems to me that those people chastising the church need to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes before they get so bombastic.

Audra – new posts are still not appearing.

Nice Work Mike Malone,

I guess focussing on Obama’s “nerdy attire” was more important than digging up the facts on this story…..LOL

Obama & Friends…….

I am a special education teacher who has autistic children in my classroom. There are different degrees of autism from mild to severe. In more severe cases these children can be very disruptive and lash out physically. It is too bad the situtation with the church has come to this point – but I imagine it was pretty bad for them to ask the family to leave and not return. The mother trying to force her son on the church shows a lack of concern for her son and the other parishoners.

You know I can understand people’s frustrations, but when people say, “Well they should just go to another church.”, that is just wrong. Those people may have been members of the church longer than most of those people complaining. Alright, I agree the child could be disruptive and should probably not be in the same room as some others. The church I belong to and many others have suggested this as well, sit with the child in another room that still lets you hear the service. I don’t believe that God would count this child out because of his disability.

Hi Aliysn… I think both are right, the boy has the right to attend and the church is right about thinking about other who are attending the service. I think they (the church) needs to provide a room (some churches do have that) for kids and for cases like for this boy so he can attend without disrupting others.
Thanks
Sam

Thanks for all the great comments and thoughts everyone! Keep them coming!

I dont think that God would want this poor child to be left out because of his disability. Its not the families fault over what happened. Besides, we still dont know what causes this terrible condition. There are some that would argue that its from the mercury in the vaccines, but they havent found any proof of any such claims.

Good evening, Hey Eddie it cooler where we are in Michigan today, high was only 60, were close to Lake Huron it can cool down in a matter of minutes…… I worked with special children, this young man is a child in a man’s body, it seems mom can’t control.. I agree you don’t put a child in a situation they can’t handle.

i think that church is wrong. i mean isnt the church about accepting everyone? the church is very out of line and if i was his mother i would keep going and take my son

Phew — I am happy to hear that Alisyn will be back Thursday. I got tickets for the F&F Mets game on Friday night and was very upset at the prospect of not getting to meet her!

I have worked with disturbed children since retiring from the Marine Corps. I have seen photo’s of this boy when this story first broke. Cannot comment about the boys behavior since I have not witnessed personally. However, people with this diagnosis can be uncontrolled in behavior. Could be very threatening for people not familiar with such behavior. This boy is over 6 feet and over 200 lbs. Could be very threatening to witness uncontrolled behavior….

I understand the church offered private religious support to family and they turned down. What is family’s goal, to make an issue or allow the boy to be exposed to religious teachings? I believe that Church services are a time for learning, sharing, and giving thanks. Would be very hard to do with a disruptive person negating the entire process.

I would say that the boy should receive private services (as offered by the church). Would recommend that the family pursue some other sort of purposful news worthy pursuit.

Just in case you are reading this, Good Morning Alisyn and Welcome Back! I hope you had a good vacation in Hawaii. JK.

Sam,
The church has a room like you mentioned and offered it to the family. The mother refused it and will only accept being in the main worship hall with the rest of the congregation.

Brad,
The church is not asking the family to leave the boy out because of he has autism. It is because of his actions. He is urinating and spitting in the church. He has struck a young girl. He bumps into people, nearly knocking them down. He jumped into a car, started it and revved the engine, risking the life of everyone in the parking lot.
His autism is not the issue and what caused it has nothing to do with the debate. He might not be able to control his actions due to his autism but that does not mean his mother can make everyone else in the church suffer through his actions and make them leave because she refuses to take measures so his actions are not disruptive and endangering.

The church has to do what is in the best interest of the parish, not one person. If this was a public school this child would have more rights than the average person and get whatever his Mom wanted.
Fortunately his IEP does not apply at the church. For too long special education has driven the show in public schools and many of these kids are disruptive and destroy the learning climate for others.
That is why many public school teachers have sent their kids to religious and private schools because of the constant interruptions and discipline problems from special needs students. Also in regards to discipline a special needs kid has a limit to how many days he/she can be suspended for discipline purposes but a non-special needs child
has no protection like that. So much for fairness.